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Indiana Drew Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Tx Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500 Posts: 2223 | '02 G500 Differential Lock System I have searched, but found little detail regarding the front and rear differential lock actuator system. I have found some very clear drawings and explanations of the system in Harald's "Work Shop" CDs so I have a pretty academic understanding of how things are suppose to work. I've also spend a few hours under the truck having a look at things. So here is the problem:
Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated. | ||
#173877 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | RE: '02 G500 Differential Lock System Indiana Drew - 6/22/2010 6:38 PM
Or you have a dead intensifier | ||
#173878 - in reply to #173877 | |||
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AlanMcR Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, CA, Los Altos Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL Posts: 3500 | RE: '02 G500 Differential Lock System What kind of bleeding was done? I've always used a pressure bleeder for this purpose. That pushes fluid into the reservoir under continuous pressure and out the bleeders when they are opened. If you don't get fluid with a pressure bleeder then I'd suspect a crushed or clogged pipe. | ||
#173879 - in reply to #173877 | |||
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Indiana Drew Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Tx Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500 Posts: 2223 | RE: '02 G500 Differential Lock System DUTCH - 6/22/2010 6:04 PM Indiana Drew - 6/22/2010 6:38 PM
Or you have a dead intensifier I'd include the intensifier for sure - I don't think it could be anything between the reservoir and where the fluid line splits ... Is the intensifier a rebuild-able item? AlanMcR - 6/22/2010 6:33 PM What kind of bleeding was done? I've always used a pressure bleeder for this purpose. That pushes fluid into the reservoir under continuous pressure and out the bleeders when they are opened. If you don't get fluid with a pressure bleeder then I'd suspect a crushed or clogged pipe. The mechanic used a power bleeder (pressure tank) - He also replaced the rear two TC bushings, engine mounts, and suspension bushings. He also had the spring shims done by another shop. I don't know if he had that done before of after the bleed ... I wonder if it is possible to crush a line along the driver's side front quarter doing any of those jobs? I suppose checking the outlet side of the intensifier would be the next logical point ... | ||
#173882 - in reply to #173878 | |||
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Fernando BR Date registered: Jan 2007 Location: Brasil Vehicle(s): G500/05 300GE/91 300GD/80 | Re: '02 G500 Differential Lock System Bad intensifier piston always down blocking fluid ? Good it didnt stuck with front locker on. Edited by Fernando BR 6/23/2010 1:03 AM | ||
#173887 - in reply to #173877 | |||
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Indiana Drew Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Tx Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500 Posts: 2223 | RE: '02 G500 Differential Lock System For how long should the vacuum pump run with locker/s engaged? | ||
#179483 - in reply to #173877 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | RE: '02 G500 Differential Lock System Indiana Drew - 10/31/2010 5:20 PM For how long should the vacuum pump run with locker/s engaged? It depends on who you talk to. When my vacuum pump was brand new, it would shut off when it reached a certain vacuum. I haven't checked lately, but it seems to run longer - perhaps continuously now. See attached. Attachments ---------------- DiffLockVacuumPump.pdf (113KB - 72 downloads) | ||
#179484 - in reply to #179483 | |||
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Indiana Drew Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Tx Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500 Posts: 2223 | RE: '02 G500 Differential Lock System The attached makes sense - I'll have to find a place to give the lockers a longer test, but the front locker disengaging while driving on the beach was what got me looking at the system in the first place ... Looks like it might be time to look for a vacuum leak or to the age of the vacuum pump. I guess as long as the pump running while the lockers are in use is not going to hurt anything, I really won't worry. It also seems the pump cycles on and off with just the cent dif engaged but runs with the rear and front locked ... Thanks Dutch ... | ||
#179485 - in reply to #179484 | |||
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W5YK Extreme Veteran Date registered: May 2006 Location: San Diego Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450, Posts: 543 | RE: '02 G500 Differential Lock System Indiana Drew - 10/31/2010 2:20 PM For how long should the vacuum pump run with locker/s engaged? With the engine running, the pump should run all the time with lockers engaged. With the engine off, and lockers engaged, the pump should run for about 30 seconds or so, and then shut itself off when the pressure gets low enough. This is a good test of your vacuum integrity - if the pump never shuts off when the engine is off, then you have a leak. | ||
#179493 - in reply to #179483 | |||
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Indiana Drew Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Tx Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500 Posts: 2223 | RE: '02 G500 Differential Lock System W5YK - 10/31/2010 11:53 PM Indiana Drew - 10/31/2010 2:20 PM For how long should the vacuum pump run with locker/s engaged? With the engine running, the pump should run all the time with lockers engaged. With the engine off, and lockers engaged, the pump should run for about 30 seconds or so, and then shut itself off when the pressure gets low enough. This is a good test of your vacuum integrity - if the pump never shuts off when the engine is off, then you have a leak.Good point - thanks RR! | ||
#179498 - in reply to #179493 | |||
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Indiana Drew Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Tx Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500 Posts: 2223 | RE: '02 G500 Differential Lock System W5YK - 10/31/2010 11:53 PM Indiana Drew - 10/31/2010 2:20 PM For how long should the vacuum pump run with locker/s engaged? With the engine running, the pump should run all the time with lockers engaged. With the engine off, and lockers engaged, the pump should run for about 30 seconds or so, and then shut itself off when the pressure gets low enough. This is a good test of your vacuum integrity - if the pump never shuts off when the engine is off, then you have a leak.OK - RR's suggestion of engaging the lockers and switching off the engine to see how long the vacuum pump would run. Almost to the second it ran until 30 then switched off. Vacuum system has integrity. Now I need to find a place where I can drive with the Lockers engaged to see if they still disengaging from time to time. I guess I can put it on jack stands, too ... | ||
#182031 - in reply to #179493 | |||
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Indiana Drew Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Tx Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500 Posts: 2223 | Reviving '02 G500 Differential Lock System As Dutch had suggested just after my original post, I have nothing left to check or blame with my front and rear lockers engaging and then disengaging a brief time later according to the indicator lights. Any ideas as to general cost of replacement intensifiers or the difficulty level of replacing them? | ||
#187716 - in reply to #182031 | |||
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AlanMcR Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, CA, Los Altos Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL Posts: 3500 | RE: Reviving '02 G500 Differential Lock System Not to incite panic, but this was exactly the behavior observed before one of our diffs destroyed a bearing on the Baja trip. You might want to drain the rear diff and see what comes out. | ||
#187724 - in reply to #187716 | |||
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Indiana Drew Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Tx Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500 Posts: 2223 | RE: Reviving '02 G500 Differential Lock System AlanMcR - 4/7/2011 11:55 AM Not to incite panic, but this was exactly the behavior observed before one of our diffs destroyed a bearing on the Baja trip. You might want to drain the rear diff and see what comes out. I'll give it a look, but I had the fluid changed 8 or 10 months ago and was not told anything was chunky in it. Might as well change it - hope I have some Redline on the shelf ... There was however defiantly lots of build up at the banjo fitting going into the actuator of both front and rear that I attributed to lack of use in 9 years. I don't know how the intensifiers are built, but I had supposed that the gunk might have come from the breakdown of some rubber parts within. | ||
#187725 - in reply to #187724 | |||
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fernweh Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa | RE: Reviving '02 G500 Differential Lock System Indiana Drew - 4/7/2011 8:26 AM As Dutch had suggested just after my original post, I have nothing left to check or blame with my front and rear lockers engaging and then disengaging a brief time later according to the indicator lights. Any ideas as to general cost of replacement intensifiers or the difficulty level of replacing them? Drew, we have figured the following situation........somehow the the finger of the diff locker actuator got bend just slightly. The "offset" was large enough for the locker not able to engage now all the way into the lock gear of the diff carrier. The results might have been mushrooming the tip of the gears do to higher stress at a smaller area. Small pieces might have been dislodged from the gear tip and gotten into the gear oil. Next to the locker gear sits the large left diff carrier bearing and the small hardened gear pieces might have damaged that HD bearing to an extend, that the whole bearing guts was dumped into the diff /axle housing. Eventual one of the bearing rollers got caught between the pinion and the ring gear - not a pleasant feeling and sound at all So, IMHO it is important to adjust the diff locker actuators on both axle in order to offset a slightly bend finger which could lead to a real expensive repair. In order to adjust the actuator, the unit needs to be charged (turn on the locker switch), have both wheels off the ground, unbolt then the actuator and move it toward the diff housing while turning the wheels so the locker can engage. Move the actuator all the way until the lock is fully engage......re-tighten the four mounting bolts. In my case, with the damaged rear axle - no prior noises to hear - just a day earlier the rear locker would not engage any more like before and got kicked out real hard a couple of times. The picture shows the real damaged/bend finger (IMG_5722 (Medium).jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG_5722 (Medium).jpg (84KB - 3 downloads) | ||
#187731 - in reply to #187716 | |||
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Indiana Drew Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Tx Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500 Posts: 2223 | RE: Reviving '02 G500 Differential Lock System Karl I don't recall if we removed the entire actuator last year when we changed the fluid and remover the gunk from the banjo fittings ... It is an easy thing to do especially if it is up on a lift ... I'll check that. Thanks | ||
#187753 - in reply to #187731 | |||
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Indiana Drew Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Tx Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500 Posts: 2223 | RE: Reviving '02 G500 Differential Lock System Is there any sort of diagnostic test to do with the intensifiers? I know there is nothing in the STAR as the units are completely analog ... My indi shop guy says the dealer wants a pretty penny for them so I hope I find something through our tried and true sources assuming they turn out to be the issue ... | ||
#187754 - in reply to #187753 | |||
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koly Elite Veteran Date registered: Jul 2006 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Vehicle(s): 2000 G500 Posts: 823 | RE: Reviving '02 G500 Differential Lock System You may also want to check the solenoid/switches on the firewall - they run about $70 ea I recently had two of the three go bad almost simultaneously. They were both showing good readings on a voltmeter but for some reason they weren't completing the circuit properly when engaged. Probably not what's causing your troubles, but maybe worth a look before other more costly measures... | ||
#187756 - in reply to #187754 | |||
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DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | RE: Reviving '02 G500 Differential Lock System Indiana Drew - 4/7/2011 10:46 PM Is there any sort of diagnostic test to do with the intensifiers? I know there is nothing in the STAR as the units are completely analog ... My indi shop guy says the dealer wants a pretty penny for them so I hope I find something through our tried and true sources assuming they turn out to be the issue ... MBUSA MSRP = $340 ea. Can be had for around $265 from the right dealer. | ||
#187762 - in reply to #187754 | |||
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Indiana Drew Expert Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Tx Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 LWB, 1980 280GE SWB (Sold), S500 Posts: 2223 | RE: Reviving '02 G500 Differential Lock System Thanks Dutch! I have been told it is probably not the in intensifiers if fluid is flowing freely though the system and none is being lost ... Any other points of diagnosis? | ||
#187771 - in reply to #187762 | |||
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