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Chasing vibrations
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Posted 11/9/2011 3:03 PM
ewikran
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Date registered: Jan 2009
Location: Tromso, Norway
Vehicle(s): W463 1997 300DT
Posts: 256
100
Re: Chasing vibrations

Well, have driven a trip without the front prop-shaft and the vibration are still there, maybe a little reduced but not much. It my depend on the fact that the centre diff has to be closed. I will reinstall and try the aft one.

While driving I tried to feel the vibrations in the TC-lever and I noticed that a gently pull backwards on the level under engine power/load it seemed to make the lever come in contact with the gears in the TC (hard vibration in the lever as it was resting on a toothed wheel). When coasting and no load on the engine I cold not feel any thing despite a more generous pull on the lever. Anyone that can confirm if this is normal?
#196650 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 11/10/2011 2:25 PM
thanito
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Date registered: Aug 2009
Location: Greece
Vehicle(s): MB G400CDI, MB 300E-24, Mini Cooper S
Posts: 253
100
Re: Chasing vibrations

Hope you ll find it soon, this will help me as well for the vibrations my truck has but no luck in finding them so far.
#196665 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 9/15/2012 4:42 PM
Werner Wild
Member


Date registered: Dec 2011
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): w460, 300GD, manual 5 gearbox, short WB, '84
Posts: 17

Re: Chasing vibrations

im wondering if you solved your problems. I'm also searching for vibration causes, looks just like your problem description.
#207303 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 9/16/2012 11:53 AM
Razon



Date registered: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle(s): 1986 280ge Cabrio, 617A, 5sp manual
500
Re: Chasing vibrations

I had vibrations and rattling noises that seemed impossible to trace. Finally, I put the whole truck on jack stands and I had a friend drive it for me while I was under the truck looking for the problem.
As much as i think it's a really good way of finding what the problem is, It is VERY dangerous. Indon't want to think what could happen is a piece of clothing would get caught in a moving part.
Anyway, remove the wheels and put a couple of bolts with spacers in each one. Do multiple tests while only changing one thing at a time. You'll have to unbolt the read drive shaft for FWD only.
Another thing to check is play in the slip joints of the driveshafts. If you don't feel anyghing by simply pushing/pullong Hit the center of the driveshaft upwards with your hand rolled in a fist... Just short punches. You should not hear any noises if the driveshaft is ok.
When you take the driveshafts out, look at the face of the flanges and make sure they're perfectly clean and smooth. Use a wire wheel/ hand file to clean them if necessary.
You should also check and make sure that the driveshafts run "round" with a micrometer. Check them at the flanges and in the center. If you find them out of round, it could be because of "dirty flanges" as I mentioned above.

For people that have vibrations at low speeds with an automatic transmission, when starting up from standstill (especially when the tranny shifts into 2'nd), your problem can be the transmission itself.

Ok, I hope this helps. Be safe!
#207313 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 9/17/2012 1:53 AM
512bbi
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Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: North western US and Europe
Vehicle(s): 05G55kge,Range rover classic,clk55amg,ML 430
Posts: 1313
1000
Re: Chasing vibrations

Fernando BR - 11/8/2011 11:18 PM

shochu - 10/9/2011 7:23 AM

are you sure your G can go 80-90 kmh in low range?


I think not , but if it could at 80 Km/h i will go hi range.


Mine can do double that in Low!

Mario
#207328 - in reply to #196638
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Posted 9/17/2012 2:51 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
Re: Chasing vibrations

512bbi - 9/17/2012 7:53 AM

Fernando BR - 11/8/2011 11:18 PM

shochu - 10/9/2011 7:23 AM

are you sure your G can go 80-90 kmh in low range?


I think not , but if it could at 80 Km/h i will go hi range.


Mine can do double that in Low!

Mario


160-180 km/h in LOW box, really, your low box/high box lever most be broken ?

Edited by thebigblue 9/17/2012 2:54 AM
#207329 - in reply to #207328
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Posted 7/22/2021 7:29 AM
DR.SAVU
Member


Date registered: Oct 2009
Location: Montpellier, France
Vehicle(s): 1986 300GD
Posts: 22

RE: Chasing vibrations

Hi, guys!!!

not sure if only I find this post about the vibrations finishing abruptly, but I need to revive it as I run into this issue.

so please help as 9 years have passed since and your experience surely increased.

in my case the vibrations are disappearing if I remove the front drive shaft.
I had it balanced by a professional, but when I put it back, vibrations are back.

I mention that the vibrations appeared after I have changed all my bushings for poly. link for the product...

https://www.kurth-classics-autoparts.de/gb/suspension/303-mercedes-g...

it was done in a friend's garage and we didn't have the vehicle on wheels when tightening the bolts, as I saw on the forum that it is ideal to do...
I changed the springs and the shocks (koni) at the same time.

so giving those details what do you guys think I should do next?

thanks a million! stay safe and get vaccinated... or not!
#242863 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 7/22/2021 9:22 PM
J.R.
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
500
Re: Chasing vibrations

It is possible that the slip joint in the middle of the shaft has been over serviced with grease. When that happens it creates a binding force that will induce unwanted vibration. While we pump grease into the ujoints until some shows, the same is not true for the slip joint. When you reinstalled the drive shaft did you have to force the shaft together?

Are the pair of ujoints in the shaft phased correctly? They will balance just fine on a bench but when they are articulated and are not phased correctly, vibrations can be induced. http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.asp?tid=13472&po...

There is also a correct front a rear install nas it has to do with the slip joint, read about it in the link too.

How many km on the truck and drive shaft?
Is the truck at stock ride height or lifted?


Edited by J.R. 7/22/2021 9:30 PM
#242869 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 7/23/2021 4:46 AM
DR.SAVU
Member


Date registered: Oct 2009
Location: Montpellier, France
Vehicle(s): 1986 300GD
Posts: 22

RE: Chasing vibrations

When you reinstalled the drive shaft did you have to force the shaft together?

yes, it was hard to undo it and then put it back together!

Are the pair of ujoints in the shaft phased correctly?

I guess...as I am following the indicating flashes.

How many km on the truck and drive shaft?

Not sure as it has only 5 digits and I am not the first owner! it shows 92.000now...

Is the truck at stock ride height or lifted?

no kit for lifting added...only new springs and I didn't get the softest, but not the hardest either.

what would be then the solution for the slip joint? undo it and clean all the grease then grease it "humanly"?
would unthightening then rethightening the bushing bolts with the truck on wheels be worth trying?

thanks for your time JR
#242871 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 7/23/2021 6:57 AM
DR.SAVU
Member


Date registered: Oct 2009
Location: Montpellier, France
Vehicle(s): 1986 300GD
Posts: 22

RE: Chasing vibrations

in the mean time, as you guys still asleep, I removed the front d/s.
there is "fresh" grease allover the body in the area of the slip joint.
the slip joint is pretty tight...I pulled hard enough to remove it and then pulled both hands against my thigh to put it back.
tried to remove some of the grease by undoing it several times...

as I understood by reading the posts the flashes have to be 78degree apart.
well it looks like between 0 and 90 degrees there are 3 more positions...according to my math that would be 22.5, 45 and 67.5...

do I go for the 67.5?

I will not install the d/s for now as I am waiting for more inputs from you guys.

thanks a lot
#242872 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 7/23/2021 6:57 AM
DR.SAVU
Member


Date registered: Oct 2009
Location: Montpellier, France
Vehicle(s): 1986 300GD
Posts: 22

RE: Chasing vibrations

in the mean time, as you guys still asleep, I removed the front d/s.
there is "fresh" grease allover the body in the area of the slip joint.
the slip joint is pretty tight...I pulled hard enough to remove it and then pulled both hands against my thigh to put it back.
tried to remove some of the grease by undoing it several times...

as I understood by reading the posts the flashes have to be 78degree apart.
well it looks like between 0 and 90 degrees there are 3 more positions...according to my math that would be 22.5, 45 and 67.5...

do I go for the 67.5?

I will not install the d/s for now as I am waiting for more inputs from you guys.

thanks a lot
#242873 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 7/23/2021 7:07 AM
Inkblotz
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3184
2000
Re: Chasing vibrations

You could remove the grease nipple and let the grease come out from there sliding it in and out. Are your arrows aligned?
#242874 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 7/23/2021 8:57 AM
DR.SAVU
Member


Date registered: Oct 2009
Location: Montpellier, France
Vehicle(s): 1986 300GD
Posts: 22

RE: Chasing vibrations

hello Inkboltz

about the arrows...a few weeks ago I had the front axle serviced completely, thinking that maybe this was the problem. it was in bad shape dripping grease, etc...
nothing changed.

So I had the idea of removing the front d/s and as I noticed the difference, meaning no vibration, actually a real pleasure to drive it, I took in the d/s to be balanced. there the guy noticed the arrows were not aligned, so he aligned them and said he will check if it's balanced anyway.
the day after he calls me telling me that it was in "normal parameters', some 7 vs 15 required by the manufacturer, but he made it even better...I said perfect, let's put it on!

So I did put it on newly balanced and with the new alignement of the arrows, but the vibrations came back like nothing was done.

at this point the d/s is in the trunk and I took it for a spin to the beach...as I go at any speed there is no vibration, so a real please to drive!
funny enough at a red light a kid points my truck and says to his father: look, daddy! is this a 4x4 that can go anywhere?
I smiled thinking to myself...not for now, body! we still have no front d/s working!



any other inputs before I put it on? my wife says: you have a funny way of "meditating" under that vehicle!

thank you all!
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Edited by DR.SAVU 7/23/2021 9:25 AM




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#242875 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 7/23/2021 10:40 AM
J.R.
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
500
RE: Chasing vibrations

When you have the front driveshaft off the vehicle, are you engaging the transfer case into 4 wheel drive? This is critical. The spinning drive shaft is what keeps the front gearing lubricated in two wheel drive. Engaging the four wheel drive mode engages the gears and lubricates the gearing.

The picture tells me the slip joint has been over serviced.

I concur with Inkblotz. Easiest way to remove grease is to remove the zerk and force the two ends together.

You should not have to apply force to get the drive shaft into place. I would leave the zerk fitting off while reinstalling and maybe even for a long test drive. (be sure and place the transfer case back into two wheel mode.

Check that you have the driveshaft correctly oriented front and rear. Reviewing the earlier link for that orientation.



Edited by J.R. 7/23/2021 10:42 AM
#242876 - in reply to #242875
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Posted 7/23/2021 10:55 AM
DR.SAVU
Member


Date registered: Oct 2009
Location: Montpellier, France
Vehicle(s): 1986 300GD
Posts: 22

RE: Chasing vibrations

your question: When you have the front driveshaft off the vehicle, are you engaging the transfer case into 4 wheel drive? This is critical. The spinning drive shaft is what keeps the front gearing lubricated in two wheel drive. Engaging the four wheel drive mode engages the gears and lubricates the gearing.
my answer: I kept it on SA ever since


The picture tells me the slip joint has been over serviced. you mean too much grease?



I concur with Inkblotz. Easiest way to remove grease is to remove the zerk and force the two ends together. DONE IT as I said in previous post, but I can re-remove it and drive around without it for a while.

You should not have to apply force to get the drive shaft into place. I would leave the zerk fitting off while reinstalling and maybe even for a long test drive. (be sure and place the transfer case back into two wheel mode.

Check that you have the driveshaft correctly oriented front and rear. Do you mean the slip joint close to the TC? DONE!

So how about the alignement? do I leave the two white arrows at 67.5 offset as in the picture?
are those the correct markings for the alignement?

thanks

#242877 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 7/23/2021 10:55 AM
DR.SAVU
Member


Date registered: Oct 2009
Location: Montpellier, France
Vehicle(s): 1986 300GD
Posts: 22

RE: Chasing vibrations

your question: When you have the front driveshaft off the vehicle, are you engaging the transfer case into 4 wheel drive? This is critical. The spinning drive shaft is what keeps the front gearing lubricated in two wheel drive. Engaging the four wheel drive mode engages the gears and lubricates the gearing.
my answer: I kept it on SA ever since


The picture tells me the slip joint has been over serviced. you mean too much grease?



I concur with Inkblotz. Easiest way to remove grease is to remove the zerk and force the two ends together. DONE IT as I said in previous post, but I can re-remove it and drive around without it for a while.

You should not have to apply force to get the drive shaft into place. I would leave the zerk fitting off while reinstalling and maybe even for a long test drive. (be sure and place the transfer case back into two wheel mode.

Check that you have the driveshaft correctly oriented front and rear. Do you mean the slip joint close to the TC? DONE!

So how about the alignement? do I leave the two white arrows at 67.5 offset as in the picture?
are those the correct markings for the alignement?

thanks

#242878 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 7/23/2021 11:38 AM
J.R.
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
500
RE: Chasing vibrations

DR.SAVU - 7/23/2021 10:55 AM

your question: When you have the front driveshaft off the vehicle, are you engaging the transfer case into 4 wheel drive? This is critical. The spinning drive shaft is what keeps the front gearing lubricated in two wheel drive. Engaging the four wheel drive mode engages the gears and lubricates the gearing.
my answer: I kept it on SA ever since. To confirm, only when the front drive shaft is off.


The picture tells me the slip joint has been over serviced. you mean too much grease? Yes


I concur with Inkblotz. Easiest way to remove grease is to remove the zerk and force the two ends together. DONE IT as I said in previous post, but I can re-remove it and drive around without it for a while. I would remove it and drive around awhile and see how much more gets pushed out.

You should not have to apply force to get the drive shaft into place. I would leave the zerk fitting off while reinstalling and maybe even for a long test drive. (be sure and place the transfer case back into two wheel mode.

Check that you have the driveshaft correctly oriented front and rear. Do you mean the slip joint close to the TC? DONE! yes

So how about the alignement? do I leave the two white arrows at 67.5 offset as in the picture?
are those the correct markings for the alignement? The alignment arrows are the ones cast/stamped into the metal. https://clubgwagen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7271&start=10

thanks

#242879 - in reply to #242878
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Posted 7/24/2021 8:27 AM
DR.SAVU
Member


Date registered: Oct 2009
Location: Montpellier, France
Vehicle(s): 1986 300GD
Posts: 22

RE: Chasing vibrations

well for now I am still not sure which cast markings to follow for the alignement as I have them at 180 degree on the short portion of the d/s.

I have reinstalled the d/s with the white arrows at 67.5 degree clockwise and removed part of the grease.
it's getting better.
I will drive for a while without the slip joint nipple and see how it works.
when I will get the motivation I will try the offset from the other marking to see if it's getting even better.

it would be insane to find out that is was just the amount of grease.

thanks for all the inputs and I will keep you guys posted for future references.

all the best.
#242887 - in reply to #195500
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Posted 7/24/2021 10:28 AM
J.R.
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
500
RE: Chasing vibrations

DR.SAVU - 7/24/2021 8:27 AM

when I will get the motivation I will try the offset from the other marking to see if it's getting even better. Where are the white arrows relative to the cast/etched arrows?

it would be insane to find out that is was just the amount of grease. Not too surprising. Grease, like liquids is nocompressable. In a sense, that shaft was acting as a hydraulic lift cylinder, like a floor jack cylinder. The weakest component at the ends of the drive shaft is the transfer case output bearings. So they were taking the load. Hopefully, the transfer case was not exposed too long to the pressure. The ujoints are designed to articulate with the multiple angles that occur during normal vertical drive shaft movement. They were being very restricted in that regard.

thanks for all the inputs and I will keep you guys posted for future references. Please do. That's how we learn

#242888 - in reply to #242887
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Posted 7/24/2021 8:30 PM
DR.SAVU
Member


Date registered: Oct 2009
Location: Montpellier, France
Vehicle(s): 1986 300GD
Posts: 22

RE: Chasing vibrations

let's recap!

I took in the d/s to be balanced as I noticed no vibrations when I drove without it.
at the shop the guy wiped of the dirt looking for the arrows.
he found a stamped arrow on the long portion of the d/s (the one towards the axle) right close to the slip joint nipple and he marked it as a big white arrow with his marker.(to be seen in the second picture that I uploaded when zooming)
checking on the short portion of the d/s (the one close to the TC) he found the two cast markings (to be seen in the fourth picture that I uploaded) and he made a big white arrow in between. at 180 degrees on the same portion there's another cast marking.(to be seen in the third picture that I uploaded)
at that point he noticed the two newly made white arrows were not aligned, so his aligned them and then he took the d/s in to check if balanced.
according to him it was in parameters but he made it even better, so he added some weight.
I put it on...vibrations still there...long story short, too much grease.

after removing part of the grease and having aligned the white arrows offset 67.5 degrees clockwise using his arrows as markings, I get much less vibrations.
my question: is this vibration that I am still getting coming now from the extra weight he added when balancing my d/s? as when I got the truck everything was fine and if I remember well when we changed bushings, springs and shocks we must've greased the joints as well...that was the moment I noticed the vibrations...
do i have to remove the extra weight as it was added with the white arrows aligned and NOT offset as it was when I took the d/s in and as it is now?

and to answer another possible question...i drove with this vibrations, therefore putting stress on the TC, for about 7-8000 km... UNFORTUNATELY.


speaking about learning....

it's 2:30am now and I feel like going to work on my truck right now.

thanks again for the remarkable inputs
I'll get back with more details.
#242889 - in reply to #195500
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