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Uneven tire wear
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Posted 6/18/2019 6:53 AM
rrneill
Member


Date registered: Jun 2017
Location: Temple, TX
Vehicle(s): 2000 Europa G500 LWB, 2008 Toyota Sequoia
Posts: 8

Uneven tire wear

Hey all, I'm kinda new to G-wagons but getting some things figured out.

I have a 1999 Europa W463 that I got about a year ago. I recently installed the OME suspension with a new drag link, steering link and panhard rod. The boots were all destroyed old ones. I also upgraded the tires before I did all this. I had always noticed the camber was off when looking at the front of the vehicle but already knew that this can't be adjusted only the toe in/out. I did the string method of alignment after the suspension/steering stuff was done.
I just came back from a small trip and was checking all the bolts/nuts when I noticed the uneven tire wear on the front tires. When looking at the front, the tired were almost wore completely down on the outside while retaining some tread on the inboard side of the tire.

I'm not sure where to go from here. Not sure if this is a bearing issue or not. Would appreciate help on things to check or ideas on what it could be.

I'm in Salado, Texas as well, if anyone is near by that could help or if there is a good shop near here.

Thanks guys
Ross
#240774
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Author
Posted 6/19/2019 8:33 AM
WEBIII
Extreme Veteran


Date registered: Oct 2010
Location: Inlet Beach, FL
Vehicle(s): 461.318, 463.241
Posts: 315
300
Re: Uneven tire wear

Worn kingpins maybe? How many miles are on the truck? How does it handle?
#240776 - in reply to #240774
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Author
Posted 6/20/2019 10:57 AM
rrneill
Member


Date registered: Jun 2017
Location: Temple, TX
Vehicle(s): 2000 Europa G500 LWB, 2008 Toyota Sequoia
Posts: 8

RE: Uneven tire wear

It has 110K miles on it. The best way I can describe the handing is that it twitchy--->meaning when I go down the road it's kind of sensitive to small deviations in the road.
#240778 - in reply to #240774
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Posted 6/23/2019 6:19 AM
WEBIII
Extreme Veteran


Date registered: Oct 2010
Location: Inlet Beach, FL
Vehicle(s): 461.318, 463.241
Posts: 315
300
Re: Uneven tire wear

It wouldn’t be the first Gwagen to need wheel bearings, kingpins and seal redone by that mileage
#240788 - in reply to #240778
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Posted 6/26/2019 12:30 AM
Otiswesty
Administrator




Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3002
2000
Re: Uneven tire wear

I would say flip and rotate the tires first.

I don't think the wheel bearings are bad, not to say that some people don't replace them anyways. Likely your steering symptoms are from the spring lift and loss of proper positive caster. This can be fixed with new drop brackets welded to the frame for the trailing arms, but is not a simple fix.

If you have camber issues, that can cause the tire wear you describe, but isn't a wheel bearing symptom as far as I know.

I have 154k miles with original wheel bearings.

Edited by otiswesty 6/26/2019 12:32 AM
#240795 - in reply to #240774
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Posted 6/26/2019 2:44 PM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
RE: Uneven tire wear

Check your alignment again.  Excessive toe-out will leads to twitchy steering, IRRC.  Certainly it will wear the tires.
#240796 - in reply to #240774
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Posted 6/26/2019 5:06 PM
WEBIII
Extreme Veteran


Date registered: Oct 2010
Location: Inlet Beach, FL
Vehicle(s): 461.318, 463.241
Posts: 315
300
Re: Uneven tire wear

Hmm I interpreted the OP as though he had noticed the camber issue prior to lift.
#240799 - in reply to #240796
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Posted 8/7/2019 1:34 PM
ewalberg
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000
the long answer...

If you go through the years of posts here, you'll find that it was the 460's that tend to need 100k mile wheel bearing replacements. Concensus is that the 463's should do 200k miles on the stock wheel bearings. I actually replaced mine at 100k, but in retrospect, it was a total waste of time and money. All was still in good condition.

I got my truck with 35k miles on it. It had a dying steering damper on it when I got it. It was certainly twitchy and sensitive to any road bumps. Tire wear was uneven. It was on the factory rims and tires... the narrower european offest rims which theroretically should be more stable. Didn't matter. I checked my axle and alignment in so many different ways. Ultimately switched to different wider rims and bigger tires... BFG At/KO sized 285/70r17 (equivalent to 285/65r18). I had the original styled BFG AT/KO, Load range E. The extra weight actually settled things down a bit, but I would still say that the vehicle is fundmentally twitchy and sensitive to road imperfections.

My truck is at 198k miles. I would estimate 150k miles were on 2 sets of the BFG At/KO, load range E. Always had stock suspension and shocks, though I did eventually replace the rear shocks... maybe the fronts too.

Basically my observation is that the G wagon is simply the twitchiest (sensitive to bumps) car I've ever driven.

Absolutely certain that I had good alignment. Nevertheless, tire wear was not as even as I wanted/expected. It always tended to wear the outsides and insides of the front tires more, and a bit strangely.

The only things that ever really made a difference in reducing the twitchiness are as following:

1. Just after the wheel bearing job I found that the the front suspension bushings were bad or going bad. Those connecting the the front trailing arms to the front Axle were expecially ready for replacement at around 100k miles. I would argue it's not a bad thing to swap them out at 100k miles in any case. Considering how old your truck is, your should absolutely swap out your suspension bushings. I swapped them out with some yellow poly bushing I bought from desert-service.com I bought and installed the full set. Still happy with them after 100k, better lasting than stock bushings for sure.

2. With the original Mercedes steering damper in GOOD condition, I found I still really needed to both balance my tires every 5000 miles, and also rotate them front to back every 5000 miles. Often times I had to bring it back a second time because (even using the fancy road-force balancer), they don't always get things perfectly right, so sometimes I drove out with it feeling worse than when I drove it in, so I'd bring it back, the second time would serve me well. The truck is hypersensitive to tire balance.

3. Ultimately I went with an aftermarket stiffer steering damper. The steering wheel certainly returns slower to center, but now the truck was/is MUCH less sensitive to tire balance. It's also lasting longer than the stock steering dampers would. Highly recommended even if it kills my power steering pump faster. Both the damper and steering pump are still going. Here's the contact info for the company. It was basically a one-off custom job they engineered for a customer. The original customer wasn't satisfied with the results, but I am. They should still have the paperwork for what they did and I believe they would be willing to produce you another one. You would need to mention that it was an old project specifically for a G-wagen / G-class. Mine was produced in 2012. It's a rebuildable shock for those that appreciate serviceability.

Naake, Inc.
2300 Central Avenue
Roseville, CA 95747
916.771.0109 Phone
916.771.5201 Fax
www.naake.com
info@naake.com

4. I found I had to put 40psi in the Load Range E BFG At/KO. Although I still saw a little weirdness in how it wore the inside and outside of the tread, it wore the tread evenly, front and back. With 30-35 psi, the tread wear on the inner and outer edges of the tread was excessive. The rear didn't appear to be wearing so flat either. Considering the Load range E tires could handle up to 80psi, my assessment is that I simply needws more pressure in them to really get them to flatten out and wear more evenly. My rims are 8.5 inches wide which is ideal for 285's so tire pressure was definitely the problem, the problem wasn't that I was/am running excessively wide rims.

So with everything checked and implemented and in good standing, I would argue that the truck is still twitchy, it could use a stiffer steering damper, needs regular tires rotating and balancing, pressure needs to be watched (and perhaps increased if youre running high load range tires) to ensure its wearing evenly, and even still you'll see that the out edges of the fronts wear a little funky.

Side notes:

1. I do take corners with a fair amount of momentum, so that's probably not helping my case to get the fronts to wear better.
2. I still love my truck and plan on putting at least another 100k miles on it.
3. For what ever reason it appears that there is some kind of production variation between trucks that results in some trucks be sensitive (like mine) and some trucks not being sensitive (like AlanMCR on the forum here). My truck is absolutely not driveable at 60mph without a steering damper, never has been, never will be. Never found a root cause, don't expect to find one. There are some trucks which don't actually need one, and aren't particularly sensitive to road imperfections, like Alan's truck, bless his heart.



Edited by ewalberg 8/7/2019 1:44 PM
#240869 - in reply to #240774
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