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About to start swap: 617 to 617a; need some reassurance and advice...
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Posted 3/14/2020 10:58 AM
dr. no
New user


Date registered: Mar 2020
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Vehicle(s): 1986 360GD
Posts: 4

About to start swap: 617 to 617a; need some reassurance and advice...

So, a lot of posts mention that this is super easy. It must be, because all the detailed posts I find are about swapping in to gas-engined cars, or changing the transmission at the same time, or adding/subtracting A/C.

The car is a Norwegian-market 1986 300GD with an M-pump. The donor vehicle was a 1983 300SD
All I am doing is switching the engines, keeping the same Getrag 5-speed, radiator (which is no longer stock anyway), oil cooler, tach, etc. So far, what I anticipate is:

1. new exhaust diameter
2. either raising front bump stops or engine mounts (or moving forward 0.5 inches)

Not sure of:
1. how much linkage modification there will be
2. mating to transmission
3. modifying sump

Does the input shaft need to be trimmed? Reamed out for bearing? I think I have seen this in the past but can't find posts now...
I would replace the clutch plate and throwout bearing while in there, the rear seal if looks leaky. Anything else that should be replaced even if they good?
Which mounts would be best?
#241562
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Posted 3/14/2020 11:40 AM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
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RE: About to start swap: 617 to 617a; need some reassurance and advice...

Welcome Scott,

Looks like you have a real project on your hands.

Please complete your My Profile with the year and model of your G, as well as where you're located. That info helps us to get to know and to help you better.
#241564 - in reply to #241562
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Posted 3/19/2020 4:31 PM
dr. no
New user


Date registered: Mar 2020
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Vehicle(s): 1986 360GD
Posts: 4

Re: About to start swap: 617 to 617a; need some reassurance and advice...

All right...anyone left around here that has done one?
#241576 - in reply to #241562
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Posted 3/19/2020 4:46 PM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
5000
Re: About to start swap: 617 to 617a; need some reassurance and advice...

dr. no - 3/19/2020 4:31 PM

All right...anyone left around here that has done one?


This guy is local to you and knows G's very well. He used to be one of the techs at Europa Int'l. I'll bet he can help you.

Marc Beyer, Owner, Master Technician
OCD Custom Cycles & Auto Repair LLC
Team Principal Kraut Racing #673
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
Office (505)428-0646
www.ocdcustomcycles.com
www.ocdcustom-motors.com
#241577 - in reply to #241576
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Posted 3/19/2020 8:34 PM
dr. no
New user


Date registered: Mar 2020
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Vehicle(s): 1986 360GD
Posts: 4

Re: About to start swap: 617 to 617a; need some reassurance and advice...

Thanks!
#241578 - in reply to #241562
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Posted 3/20/2020 4:16 PM
Boy G
Expert


Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
1000
Re: About to start swap: 617 to 617a; need some reassurance and advice...

dr. no - 3/18/2020 10:31 PM

All right...anyone left around here that has done one?


Yes me, but only if I can respond if I have done more than one. I have done two.

1. Move the engine forward - dont risk the bump stops catching it. The centre prop shaft can handle it if your gearbox is unchanged.
2. The purists insist that match balancing the new flywheel (auto to manual) is a must. I could not do this and have spent thousands of kilometers anticipating bits of shredded engine to smash me in the cabin - but I like the thrill.
3. Put in a bigger diameter exhaust - this engine hates the standard 2" straw. You will need to re route the header. Add some heat proof lagging to this header and make sure the heat shield protecting the starter from being grilled is in place. I assume you are LHD and therefore need no heat shielding of the brake master from turbo heat but remember the turbo exhaust is twice as hot as before and passes close to your wife's left foot. If you have one. If not an Engel 40l fits in there just dandy.
4. The gearlinks will need a little length added as the entire shifter and its pattern will move backwards with the engine going forwards. Bisecting and threading the ends of each shifter shaft and adding a long nut makes a good permanent solution. You will need to fiddle a bit here.
5. If you dont like too many gizmos - consider a turbo boost pressure guage which tells you everything you need to know - if you know what it is doing.
5. The standard radiator works fine if it is in good condition - even in hotter climates. It is worthwhile ensuring cooling system is good like putting new waterpump, 80 deg thermostat and new pressure cap and so one. Even if you repent of it thereafter, you will bear the consequences of overheating.
6. Put a petrol engine air cleaner (eg from 230 or 280 GE) on it - your stock 300 Gd is restrictive.
7. There is a thin tube that goes from the inlet manifold to the rear of the injector pump. Remove it and clean it. The pressure in the manifold influences the fuelling via this tube.
8. Use MB pressure plate and clutch. I tried and broke LUK.
9. It is worthwhile on any old 617 to overhaul or replace the vacuum pump. They can fail catastrophically.
10. A plastic 9 blade fan is very desirable and modern.
11. Before you fit the new engine consider replacing the rear main oil seal. I did not consider this - twice - and am now old enough to hate the oil stains under the car that i still have.
12. The engine is sensitive to correct valve clearances.
13. If you want an AC you will wail and gnash your teeth if LHD - but it can be done. Easy if RHD.
14. I had round mounts so i stuck with them and fabbed up my own mount arms that shift the engine forward by 15mm. 15mm is better than 1/2 an inch, but i am biased.

I hope you have fun with it. It makes this car so much more pleasant to drive but I must warn you that it is not as broadly torquey as the NA 617 through the gears so it takes a little more vigilance when driving to keep it in the sweet spot.


Edited by Boy G 3/20/2020 4:21 PM
#241580 - in reply to #241576
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Posted 3/22/2020 11:55 AM
dr. no
New user


Date registered: Mar 2020
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Vehicle(s): 1986 360GD
Posts: 4

Re: About to start swap: 617 to 617a; need some reassurance and advice...

Thanks, that's very complete!
How did you address the pilot bearing (Input Shaft Center Bearing)?
#241585 - in reply to #241562
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Posted 4/10/2020 10:06 PM
PNZWGN
Member


Date registered: Feb 2014
Location: Roanoke, VA
Vehicle(s): 1984 300GD, 2008 E350, 2012 X5 M Sport
Posts: 9

RE: About to start swap: 617 to 617a; need some reassurance and advice...

Hey Dr. No... haven’t been on here in a while and just saw this post. Here are a couple of posts from my fairly recent 617na to 617a swap (although I’ve done a bunch of other stuff also.)

https://clubgwagen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10670

https://clubgwagen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=14758&hilit=Mark

Not exactly a step by step DIY, more of a documentation of what I’ve done that may help you just the same.

If possibly, I recommend the W460 specific engine mounts for a 617a. I was told that I got the last set available but I’m pretty sure there are more out there. Definite a minimum 2.5” diameter exhaust (trust me.). Unless you change the transmission then I wouldn’t expect much linkage issues. Bell housing should match up but Inkblotz can confirm this. Input bearing does need to be cut down by a machine shop (covered in my thread above.)

Hindsight I would have done the front main seal at the time. Not sure I’d worry about the rear main seal as the new ones leak from what I hear. I just knocked out the front main seal last month while doing a turbo/intercooler upgrade. I would also replace the oil cooler lines (both) while you have it out. I just did this also. Do it while the engine is on your garage floor. Oh... and don’t forget to balance match your flywheel!

Good luck with this. If you have all of the parts sourced and ready to go, you can easily knock this out in a weekend.
#241633 - in reply to #241562
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