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A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan
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Posted 5/1/2020 7:46 PM
M117Veske
Member




Date registered: Apr 2020
Location: Norway
Vehicle(s): 1993 500 GE
Posts: 5

A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

Hi all, I first wanted to thank you for being a great forum. I've been lurking around and searching old threads for a while, and there are so many people in here with great cars and a lot of knowledge. It makes me very hopeful with regards to fixing some of the troubles I've gotten myself into. Some of the issues seem insurmountable, but I did see a few posts in here in particular from from H1LM002G55, whose 500 GE experiences are not entirely different from my own. Especially when it comes to my fan clutch.

Here goes: A couple of years ago, I bought a good old 500 GE. It came with an impressive stack of receipts for various work done, but it soon proved to be everything but the "well maintained, ready to use" car the dealer talked about – most of the receipts were for several rounds of working on one set of lifters, and not much else at all. The radiator was cracked, everything made from rubber or plastic was worn out, I had oil and fluid leaks of all sorts, and there's still exhaust leaks and other fun things that I'm gradually working my way through. These days I'm working on the fuel pump assembly, since the cradle and everything in it was just dangling by two of the four rubber rings. A nice surprise to find when you're just trying to replace the fuel filter!

But the most frustrating problem of all is the main cooling fan. When I bought the car I had this loud and angry whining noise all the time. It sounded like a small propeller plane wherever I went, and the noise was perfectly synced with the amount of power I applied. As I was pretty clueless when it comes to cars, and especially older cars, it took months before I realized that the noise was actually my engine fan.

How?

The 500 GE, as many of you know, was originally a joint AMG-Mercedes adventure, with several adjustment made to the M117 engine by AMG. One of these adjustments were the viscous fan clutch; the AMG-engineered version having a slimmer profile and larger diameter than the stock M117 fan clutches made by Mercedes-Benz. This, along with a different set of radiator hoses, were supposedly made to ensure the long engine would fit in the relatively short nose of the G.

The stock fan is common across the sports and luxury cars using most variants of the M116 or M117 engines. This clutch lets the fan spin freely, independently of the engine's speed, at 400-600 rpm, until coolant temperature reaches approximately 105 degrees Celsius. At that point a bimetallic strip bends into shape and engages a pin, filling the inner chamber of the clutch with fluid, thus smoothly engaging the clutch. The fan would then rotate proportionally with the engine speed (up to about 3000 rpm at engine speeds of 3850 rpm, the difference due to slip in the clutch). At higher engine speeds than 3850 rpm, the fluid would be drained from the clutch by way of centrifugal forces, disengaging it. Presumably this was intended as sort of an "emergency relief" to avoid placing too great stress on the fan blades, so they don't shatter at high speeds. Once disengaged in this manner, fan speed would return to somewhere between 400-600 rpm, until the engine speeds dropped to 3400 rpm or less (when it would re-engage).

Mine did none of those things. It ran at the same speed as the engine, no matter the temperature, and no matter the speed. The fan clutch is completely locked, and there is no slip at all. Cold engine at 1000 rpm? The fan would spin at 1000 rpm. If the engine ran at 5000 rpm, my fan ran at 5000 rpm. And that's where the sound came from.

So. When mounted, the AMG fan clutch is already a bit close to the radiator. I expect that trying to mount the regular Mercedes model simply would not fit. Also, above are the specifications for speeds and temperatures when mounted in something like en SEC. I have no idea what the specs are for the AMG fan clutch. Altogether (plus the fact that I am trying as hard as I can to keep the car in as original condition as I am able) this means I'm pretty sure I need the AMG fan. Which, of course, is no longer available anywhere.

I've spoken at length with various specialist parts shops and importers here in Norway, and abroad. I've talked to the Mercedes-Benz Classic division, the museum, I've talked to AMG in Affalterbach and to Daimler headquarters in Stuttgart, and I've even tried reaching out to places like Mechatronik. And everywhere it's the same; they either don't understand what I'm asking for, or they don't have it. Or, on occasion, they don't answer my emails.

There are some online sellers that claim to have the part I need, but their pictures all make it clear that they have got their parts numbers confused somehow. There's someone in Latvia on eBay, and there's one otherwise very promising German shop which say they have one, but once more, the pictures show otherwise. The Latvian one, for instance, is really an A 116 200 11 22... whereas I need the HWA 117 200 00 22. Buying anything from someone who doesn't post a picture at all, of course, is completely out of the question.

So that was maybe far too long a story. But the short version is this: I'd really like a working engine fan for me 500 GE. Do any of you know if there is any way I can order a new unit?

Edited by M117Veske 5/1/2020 7:46 PM
#241677
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Author
Posted 5/1/2020 9:31 PM
J.R.
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
500
Re: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

Is this it? https://www.ebay.com/itm/HWA1172000022-FAN-DRIVE-Mercedes-Benz-origi... (from latvia so maybe it is not it)

Some Fan clutches, 616 in the 307d, were designed with a locking tab. If the clutch failed, bend the tab down, locking the clutch and turn it into a fixed blade fan. Maybe the prior owner or shop bent the tab down, if yours has one.

Or, from another site "You can add new silicone oil really easy as long as the bearing isn't shot. Just drill a tap a small hole, remove the pin & seal, re-fill the clutch with 10,000 weight RC car differential oil (8 bucks online), then use a set screw/locktite to seal the hole."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZnK0OdkpeI

Last option is to replace it with an electrical fan and a digital variable speed fan controller.

Edited by J.R. 5/1/2020 9:36 PM
#241680 - in reply to #241677
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Author
Posted 5/2/2020 6:54 AM
M117Veske
Member




Date registered: Apr 2020
Location: Norway
Vehicle(s): 1993 500 GE
Posts: 5

Re: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

Yeah that's the Latvian A 116 200 11 22 that I mentioned. They might have gotten the right box, but it's definitely not the right part.

As for locking tabs, that's news to me! I haven't seen anything like that, but I'll try looking it up and see what it might look like. Refilling oil seems to be a solution to the (much more common) problem of a freewheeling fan which never locks up; I should be so lucky. Right now I'm cooling the engine by way of the two electrical fans A/C up front, wired to be always-on, and by not doing any heavy lifting with the car.

Since I'm also trying to do as faithful a restoration as possible, getting an electrical fan would be an absolute last resort.
#241682 - in reply to #241677
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Posted 5/2/2020 2:01 PM
J.R.
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
500
Re: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

Can you share pictures of your current fan clutch?
#241683 - in reply to #241682
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Posted 5/2/2020 2:12 PM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
5000
RE: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

One of our US based 500GE owners says that his US MB dealer was able to obtain the part, but it was special order from Germany.

Have you tried to obtain it from your local MB dealer?
#241684 - in reply to #241677
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Posted 5/2/2020 3:02 PM
M117Veske
Member




Date registered: Apr 2020
Location: Norway
Vehicle(s): 1993 500 GE
Posts: 5

RE: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

That's strange. I've spoken with two official Mercedes-Benz dealers in Norway, and one of them refused to accept that the part number I provided could exist, since it was completely absent from their database. The other, which can usually get even the most obscure bits from Germany, said they could not get this particular part.

]

Above is the top of my fan clutch, with the protective cover removed, below is the bottom of the unit.

]
#241685 - in reply to #241677
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Posted 5/2/2020 3:58 PM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
5000
RE: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

M117Veske - 5/2/2020 3:02 PM

That's strange. I've spoken with two official Mercedes-Benz dealers in Norway, and one of them refused to accept that the part number I provided could exist, since it was completely absent from their database. The other, which can usually get even the most obscure bits from Germany, said they could not get this particular part.



The part number is still listed in the official Daimler Parts Online Catalog.

See the attached PDF.

Take the PDF to your dealer. The part may be NLA, but it is still listed in the Daimler Aftermarket Parts Catalog.

I would also contact Behr to see if they can come up with the part, since they are the one who manufactured it.



Attachments
----------------
Attachments XENTRY Portal - Print part query.pdf (92KB - 11 downloads)
#241686 - in reply to #241685
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Posted 5/2/2020 5:05 PM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
5000
RE: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

Mahle now owns Behr. Here is the link to the visco-fan clutch for the G500E with the M117 engine dating from 09/93-12/94.

https://catalog.mahle-aftermarket.com/eu/product.xhtml?eid=2775491&r...

It might be worth checking it out.

Here's their email address for aftermarket parts: aftermarket@mahle.com
#241687 - in reply to #241685
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Posted 5/2/2020 5:44 PM
M117Veske
Member




Date registered: Apr 2020
Location: Norway
Vehicle(s): 1993 500 GE
Posts: 5

Re: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

Oh man, thank you so much! I've tried reaching out to Behr through a couple of channels, but never received a response from them. That address might prove more effective, but I'll absolutely print out that PDF and bring it to a dealer first. I'm afraid of getting my hopes up too much, but might there actually be some light at the end of this tunnel? We shall see!
#241688 - in reply to #241677
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Posted 5/3/2020 9:30 PM
AGuess
Elite Veteran


Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Holly Springs NC
Vehicle(s): 93 500GE, 93 500GE, 2002 G500
Posts: 717
500
Re: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

Hi M117Veske,

I own 2 500GE's in the USA and fellow p3 member also own's 1 in he USA.

We have both been able to have our local MB dealer order this part from MB in Germany. The problem is that the HWA designation is a special order part. I have also had to ask my MB dealer to call MB Germany and talk to them about parts for my 500GE that I could not source. The MB Classic center in CA has been very helpful in the past. I work with Jon.

Another option you have is to have your fan clutch rebuilt. There is a very good shop in the USA that can do that for you.

Blue Ridge MB of Atlanta GA. USA

https://blueridgemb.com

Phone: (404)-805-1357. Ask for Jonathan, the owner. He is very knowledgeable with the M117 engine and the 500GE.

Your only other option is to try to rebuild the clutch yourself by using Visco Fluid sold by Toyota, but I can not advise you on how to do this, I have only heard that it can be done.

The 500GE is a great G, but it is becoming very hard to find some parts. Be very careful with your lower radiator hose, they are also a HWA part and are no longer made.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

AGuess

#241693 - in reply to #241677
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Posted 5/5/2020 7:00 AM
gerryvz
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
300
Re: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

Yes, I recommend contacting the MB Classic Center in Fellbach, Germany. They should be able to help you.

Phone: +49 711 1730000

The US Classic Center is also a resource, but it is an arm of the main CC in Germany. But perhaps could be an alternative. If you do need to contact the US-based Classic Center, you should ask for Tom Hanson, who runs the parts department there, and has 40+ years of MB parts experience under his belt. He helped several years ago obtain a very difficult to get infrared key for my 1995 G320, and at a nice discount from factory list price.

As much as I think Jonathan Hodgman / Blue Ridge MB is excellent (and he is a longtime friend), for a fan clutch or any other type of advice for an M117/G-wagen, I HIGHLY recommend buying a new one from MB if you can still obtain one. I would only rebuild a fan clutch as a last resort.
#241699 - in reply to #241677
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Posted 8/8/2020 2:33 AM
M117Veske
Member




Date registered: Apr 2020
Location: Norway
Vehicle(s): 1993 500 GE
Posts: 5

Re: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

Hi all,

Since you were all so helpful, I just wanted to give a quick update. The local dealership (which offered me an AC fan last time I tried!) was immediately more understanding when I brought them the printout. I guess it helped them see I wasn't making things up However, as they were able to find the part number in the system, they got a message that it was not available anywhere except maybe MB CC or from the factory.

I've also reached out to Mahle, and although a combination of obscure part, summer holidays, and a bit of a language barrier has been making things difficult, I am currently waiting for feedback from their local representatives. Last status is that the part is in the process of "getting an availability status" – and no way of estimating when that might be done.

If that turns out to be a dead end as well, I suppose I'll get on the phone to Atlanta! :D
#241869 - in reply to #241677
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Posted 8/27/2020 4:20 AM
H1LM002G55
Expert




Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
1000
Re: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

They still make the fan clutch. But I am converting the 500GE to an electric fan.
A few years back I spoke to the manufacturer of the HWA / AMG fan clutch in Germany.
They said to me: “Do not worry, we will still make it for your baby”.
That said, I think many of these are old stock with fluid that has leaked from improper storage. Either convert to an electric fan or send to Blueridge MB for rebuild.

Edited by H1LM002G55 8/27/2020 10:49 AM
#241906 - in reply to #241680
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Posted 1/5/2021 5:22 PM
imjustdave
Regular


Date registered: Feb 2012
Location: Bonney Lake Washington USA
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2006 Ram 3500.
Posts: 77
50
RE: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

How exact do you want to get on this fan? I could assume that maybe for water crossing Mercedes had these fan clutch work a little differently but if it was that much of a concern I figure electric would have been optioned in.
I also assume some part number updating on the G was an after thought as I have noticed a few things don't' always add up. order a part that fits X motor and well it's identical to the part that I just removed.

I'm looking for replacement idea on a G500 and when I was looking ran across this about an hr ago.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/1162000522.htm?pn=116-200-05-...

Specifically just doing a generalized search I assume the 500GE motor was used in more then just the G wagon.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/byv-mercedes-benz/b-behr/c-water-coolin...



#242354 - in reply to #241685
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Posted 5/18/2022 11:38 AM
Luky
Elite Veteran


Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia, EU
Vehicle(s): 300GE LWB auto, E320CDI 4M, VW Polo Classic 1.6
Posts: 1062
1000
Re: A troubled 500 GE and its engine fan

I see that this thread is 2 years old but has anybody found any solution? Is there a way to get a fan clutch for the 500GE?
#243601 - in reply to #241869
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