Welcome Guest. ( logon | register )   
FAQ Member List Albums Today's Posts Search

PointedThree :  Vans, Trucks, SUVs and Other Forums : G-Class : wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

Page 3 of 3 123
wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced
Topic Tools Message Format
Author
Posted 10/3/2006 1:32 PM
roughneck
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
2000
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

Sean, finish this well known phrase, " to err is human............
#46971 - in reply to #46959
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/3/2006 2:56 PM
ewalberg
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000
Re: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

hopefully i didn't sound upset in my previous post. I usually have special requests of people so, as long as things move forward i'm happy. For other peoples sake i should clarify that i special requested bearings Sean doesn't stock, so i'm as much to blame as anyone for specifically requiring a non-standard bearing. I had the bearings in hand and know that g-wagens bearings can be sensitive to geometry (i was at haralds when we had the fit issue with dai's truck) so I, as much as anyone, should have or would have been qualified to check for the issue as anybody else.... and it's yet to be confirmed that the issue is even related to the bearings themselves.

As of yet, the problem may be entirely do to my not seating them fully. i ask because i want to make sure i don't ignore any possibilities. So there's no new items to check... it's outer bearing race not fully seated either do to installation or geometry issues... so far so good... thanks for all the input.

Vlad. Feel free to e-mail over that instruction set for the wheel bearings (although it might be more helpful for everyone to post it if you're willing to share it) If you've got anything for the fogs i'll take it. They went in well, but it never hurts to see if i miss anything. I'll send you another e-mail so you don't have to dig for mine in your old e-mails.

#46985 - in reply to #46926
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/3/2006 3:04 PM
ewalberg
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

i don't want to get too many tangents going here, but one observation i made having now pulled my right side apart...

Left side: Both inner and outer wheel bearing nuts required some torque to loosen them. Neither much, but neither was either very tight or loose. Kin plates stayed more or less went flush with the knuckes when bolts were removed and came flush on re-assembly

Right side: Outer lock nut was much tighter. inner nut was loose once the outer was removed... maybe between 1/10-1/6 of a turn required to hand tighten it. Upper king pin plate lifted maybe .05" when bolts were removed.

Any thoughts? Never had any appreciable play in the bearings before disassembly but i never too dial gages to them. On the wheel bearings, seems the left side always had some preload even from the inner nut, left side seems more like procedures we've got described here. Right king pin seems like it might be over pre-loaded?
#46986 - in reply to #45120
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/3/2006 6:40 PM
4x4abc



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
5000
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

Sean,

what I would like to know is whether the correct bearing has a suffix like the 460 bearing ("A" after KLM503349)?
#47001 - in reply to #46986
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/4/2006 12:04 AM
Braingears
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
1000
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

Guys,
After 120,000 miles, I'm finally due for my own wheel bearings. Actually, I'm pretty sure that I've got a torn CV-Joint boot on the left front. I'm also suspecting that I am leaking differential fluid from the diff --> left tube (through the seals) --> into the left knuckle area.
The common theory (on this forum) says that I should be due for the bearings soon. I figured that I would rebuild all bearings and seals in the front axle.

What do you guys think about that?

Since I cannot fit my G-Wagon into my garage, and do not want to rebuild the entire thing in the dirt, I debating on removing the entire front axle to perform the work. This will also give me the opportunity to see if I actually bent the front axle on my "Flight or the G-Wagon" several years ago.

Is changing both the inner and out axle components a major undertaking?

If I find that the CV-Jount is bad, is this an expensive part? Can I just replace the single joint, or must I purchase the entire CV-Axle?

 

#47080 - in reply to #45120
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/4/2006 9:48 AM
dai
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
2000
Re: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

Eric, I would not mess with the king pin shims. Leave them as set up stock and call it good. Those bearings turn small only a small amount, tiny arcs.

-Dai
#47131 - in reply to #46958
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/4/2006 12:36 PM
ewalberg
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

Looking at my axles, now understanding them better, if your bearings are warn it's going to put stress on the CV which will put stress on the axle seal as well as a little bushing just behind the axle seal in the axle. On the little busing behind the seal, check to see how warn it looks. You can see light contact from the axle on mine, i'd wonder if yours shows more real wear? You might have been due earlier... though mine all seems in good shape, but i can imagine it doesn't take much wear to start having problem. I'd get a huge tarp and do it on a tarp, and if you have fear of rain get a portable cover or something like that. The only difference between what you'd be doing and what i did is a CV joint change. Pulling the axle seal is easy. i changed mine.

To all, I found the upper king pin plate is a useful tool for tapping in the seals. use the outside face against the seal and tap on the round boss that goes into the king pin bearing. soft blow mallot required... not a hammer, don't wanna damage the king pin plate surface. It usually took a decent first whack usually gets the seals started in straight, and then tap it in from there.

My biggest recommendation is to clean everything as well as possible before getting started. I did that on the right side and it's much more pleasurable to work on that way and then you don't end up getting gunky crap everywhere.
#47147 - in reply to #47080
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/4/2006 4:04 PM
EuroTruck
Extreme Veteran


Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oakwood, Georgia - USA
Vehicle(s): 2012 Audi A4 Avant S-Line, 2015 Ridley NOAH SL
Posts: 518
500
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

4x4abc - 10/3/2006 6:40 PM Sean, what I would like to know is whether the correct bearing has a suffix like the 460 bearing ("A" after KLM503349)?

 

Harald,

 

See the photos below for part numbers.

FWIW, the MB wheel bearings we have on the shelf are SKF Germany.

 

We've been sourcing FAG wheel bearing kits for the W463 from Germany. We have four of the FAG kits here now and three of the kits do not have the bearing with the beveled edge. The contents of the kits, which are listed below, are rather amusing.


FAG Kit #1 has the correct bearing inside and it is an SKF Germany bearing.
FAG Kit #2 has the incorrect bearing and it is an FAG Germany bearing.
FAG Kit #3 has the incorrect bearing and it is an FAG Japan bearing.
FAG Kit #4 has the incorrect bearing and there is no Country of Manufacture marking. (see photo)
All of our W460 wheel bearing kits are made by SKF Germany and contain all of the correct parts.
Clear as mud?
Thanks,
-Sean P.




(Correct bearing with part numbers small.jpg)



(Correct bearing small.jpg)



(Incorrect bearing small.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Correct bearing with part numbers small.jpg (39KB - 9 downloads)
Attachments Correct bearing small.jpg (40KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments Incorrect bearing small.jpg (45KB - 9 downloads)
#47177 - in reply to #47001
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/4/2006 7:34 PM
ewalberg
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

Ooops, i re-read my post. It's the left side which seems like it must have been running with pre-load and the right side which might have been running with just a bit of play based on how tight or loose i found the inner and outer nuts.

2nd questions. For those who have adjusted the bearings to have slight play. Can you feel it at all, or can you only tell by the dial indicator? I ask becuase i never could really feel any play in my bearings, even before i changed them.

PS it was the bearings. NTN's can be used on the king pins and the Inners but no way on the outers unless you wanna grind your bearings.
#47218 - in reply to #47147
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/5/2006 5:22 AM
460332

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Europe
Vehicle(s):
500
Re: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

A very, very tiny slack should be heard, but hardly felt when applying strong force to the wheel. The force you apply are only 1/100 of when you drive the car. Tightening the bearings too tight means heat development, specially if the bearings are new and over-lubricated (You used too much grease), and failure. Too much slack gives hard knocks and will damage the bearing's rolling surface. You should break-in the bearings with about 1000km, then re-thighten them!

Yes, the inner center nut should be loose.

Are you sure about the torque of 200 Nm (Newton meters) applied to the center nut? That's actually 20,3 kilograms on a 1 meter arm, except the weigt of the arm. If your torque tool is 50 cm (19") long you should apply 40,6 kg (app. 90 Lbs) on that arm when tightening the center nut, thats half og the weight og a man (european average..)
#47274 - in reply to #45120
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/18/2006 1:17 PM
ewalberg
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

One last thing... i am actually getting some heating of the knuckle. I did some highway driving so i could avoid using my brakes so my rotors were cool to the touch. I can't really feel much on the bell of the knuckel, but if i reach my hand in underneath/inside the rotor i can feel it's heating up at the end of the knuckle. I thought they might be tight since i coudldn't feel any play, so i loosened one side until i could feel some play, but no change to speak of so bearing tension doesn't seem to have any affect. I guess i could try tightening them even more, but that doesn't seem wise.

The only thing i can think of is that there is friction generated by rubbing of the knuckle against the yellow spongy gasket that sits out beyond the outer seal. I made sure eveything is well greased but it should not be grease locked. My temptation is to just think it's normal. Any thoughts?
#49328 - in reply to #45120
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/18/2006 5:18 PM
460332

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Europe
Vehicle(s):
500
Re: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

Do not tight the bearing pass the point where you have not play, then heat can build up towards where the metal hardening goes away. If the brakepads don't fully retracts, heat could build up too. It's very common for frontbrake pistons to stick on the G, check them out!
#49367 - in reply to #45120
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/18/2006 7:20 PM
ewalberg
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000
definitely not the brakes...

After feeling the warmth, To trouble shoot this, i ran one side loose enough that it had perceptible play whilst i left the other side alone... with no perceptible play that i could feel. From the 35-95k miles i've had my truck for i've never been able to feel any play.

And when i was feeling the warmth for this particular questions, my rotors were cool to the touch so there was no heat added by the braking system. That's what makes me think this might be "normal"... especially since it's the same on both sides.

Even though this last detail is yet to be determined (and it took longer than i thought) it is definitely rewarding having done the job. Having to re-do the one side just solidified the process in my head so it's nice being able to imagine just what's happening inside... I was tempted to have someone else do the job and then i'd do the tensioning, but i could see the tensioning process being much more nebulous than it is now.

Edited by ewalberg 10/18/2006 7:24 PM
#49388 - in reply to #49367
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 10/19/2006 12:57 PM
ewalberg
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000
woo-hoo!

i checked Alanmcr's truck. His does it too... to a lesser extent perhaps, but it does the same thing. Mine might be getting a little warmer than his since it's all fresh in there, but i think i'm done. YEAH!!! I"M DONE!!! I'm gonna go get drunk!
#49462 - in reply to #49388
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 4/14/2019 6:42 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

ewalberg - 9/18/2006 1:46 AM

.... i've copied a a picture from hipine's clubgwagen article showing which race won't budge....


I thought it would be fun to resurrect this thread because it was the oldest one I could find that referenced when I last replaced wheel bearings on the 1980.

Driving this week I noticed the brake pedal travel was long on first press, and solid with a follow up. My brain said, "I know what that means." A quick look yesterday showed the right side hub had some shake in it. It wasn't huge play. The truck drove fine with no ill effects to handling, but the bit of wheel shake that's allowed knocks the brake pads back on long runs between brake applications (I don't use the brakes much, preferring to plan ahead instead).

So I made sure the bearings had plenty of grease, even re-packed the outer one in place on the hub and re-assembled everything to spec. That should be okay to get me through this week while I order my second set of axle service parts from Eurotruck. I don't remember how many miles the truck had when I did the last service, but it had to be in the ballpark of 200,000 miles on it. It's now flirting with 495,000 so I guess I did it right.

-Dave G.
#240604 - in reply to #45120
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 4/24/2019 6:26 PM
WEBIII
Extreme Veteran


Date registered: Oct 2010
Location: Inlet Beach, FL
Vehicle(s): 461.318, 463.241
Posts: 315
300
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

hipine - 4/14/2019 5:42 PM

ewalberg - 9/18/2006 1:46 AM

.... i've copied a a picture from hipine's clubgwagen article showing which race won't budge....


I thought it would be fun to resurrect this thread because it was the oldest one I could find that referenced when I last replaced wheel bearings on the 1980.

Driving this week I noticed the brake pedal travel was long on first press, and solid with a follow up. My brain said, "I know what that means." A quick look yesterday showed the right side hub had some shake in it. It wasn't huge play. The truck drove fine with no ill effects to handling, but the bit of wheel shake that's allowed knocks the brake pads back on long runs between brake applications (I don't use the brakes much, preferring to plan ahead instead).

So I made sure the bearings had plenty of grease, even re-packed the outer one in place on the hub and re-assembled everything to spec. That should be okay to get me through this week while I order my second set of axle service parts from Eurotruck. I don't remember how many miles the truck had when I did the last service, but it had to be in the ballpark of 200,000 miles on it. It's now flirting with 495,000 so I guess I did it right.

-Dave G.

Time for another DIY article?
#240628 - in reply to #240604
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 4/24/2019 11:52 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

WEBIII - 4/24/2019 4:26 PM

Time for another DIY article?


Heh Heh. BTDT. The only thing different this go-round is that I decided to Time-Sert the upper kingpin bolt hole that stripped when I was installing it 250,000 miles ago. I left it as was then and all was well when opened. AND I'm thinking I'll build a make a tool for pressing out kingpin bearing races on the truck. I remember that being a big PITA the last go round. CVs are re-packed with new boots and parts are all cleaned and ready for paint. Slow and steady wins the race.

Oh yeah, and one hub was worn 0.015" in the area of the inner wheel bearing. Luckily I was able to salvage a like-new one from the front axle of the Pasadena Diesel that I bought for $600 to get the flywheel for my original 617A project. That truck has paid for itself 3-4x over. That said, if anybody wants that 617 (normally aspirated) motor, it's yours for the taking. Just doesn't have a flywheel.

-Dave G.
#240629 - in reply to #240628
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 5/5/2019 4:25 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
RE: wheel bearing job... some questions for the experienced

Finally got back to the front axle job this weekend. I did make good on my promise to myself to make a press for removal of the kingpin bearing races. The tool was pretty easy to turn out from some spare stock I had lying around and some fine thread 3/4" all-thread also in the surplus bin. Wow did that do the trick. Pushed the bearings out just as fast as I could turn that nut. WAY better than trying to knock them out like I did last time.

The Time-Sert in the upper kingpin bolt went pretty well, but in hindsight, I should have made a guide plate to get it really perfect. The existing bolt hole being rusty and stripped probably ended up with that one bolt in a slightly different position than it should have been. At least it looked a little funny from the top. But it wasn't off enough to prevent the bolts from all going in just fine, so I guess it's good enough. And it's gotta be better than the stripped hole that was in there before, even though that didn't cause any issues during the 250,000 mile run.

Everything's back together now and I managed to hit the 0.001" bearing free play right on the money so I expect these will last quite a while. I was a little short of "Lubriplate special auto marine grease" for the swivel housings so ended up with about 600g/side instead of the 800 they call for. Need to buy some more of that stuff.

-Dave G.



(kingpin press.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments kingpin press.jpg (129KB - 1 downloads)
#240658 - in reply to #240629
Top of the page Bottom of the page
« View previous thread :: View next thread »
Page 3 of 3 123
Forum Jump :
All times are EST.  The time is now 7:44:52 PM.

Execution: 0.453 seconds, 108 cached, 11 executed.