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Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

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Posted 8/30/2006 4:05 AM

NorthseaRoughneck
Extreme Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500

Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

Hello All,

First things first ... I have to warn you all because I am really p#ss@d %ff! Not with any of you or P3 but with the way I am being treated by the Dutch police, law and insurance companies. What gives?

Well, yesterday we were rudely awakened early in the morning by a clearly mentally ill person. She was ringing door bells and causing all sorts of trouble in my neighborhood. Police was called in by me and several other people as well. They showed up, tried to communicate with this person and after failing to communicate ... they left the scene. Leaving this mentally ill person out there on her own. By the way, this person had arrived by car and clearly was unable to drive.

After all the commotion was over I went back to my house to find that my 300GD was scratched ... to the metal

All around my car there were footprints in the sand. Footprints of cowboy/western boots. Looking at what the lady was wearing on her feet I discovered that she was wearing just that type of footwear. 1 + 1 equals 2, right!?

Wrong, not so in this case. I called the police again to come and check out the damage and to file a complaint. Again they arrive, they do their maths and come to the same conclusion as me ... 'it must have been this lady' ... draw up a report and doing so ask me the million dollar question. Did I see her while she was scratching up my car? Well ... no, it was 05:30 in the morning and I was in bed before she started ringing my door bell.
Yes, you guessed it. Because I did not actually see her do the scratching there was nothing they could do. That automatically means that I can not claim from my insurance without dropping down the 'No Claim' ladder. In my honest opinion this is the wrong way round! This is f@ck#d up.

Sorry for this slightly 'Off Topic' begin of my post but I just had to ventilate. Who better to ventilate your anger and frustration with than then my fellow Mercedes-Benz G-Class colleagues/owners/fanatics/enthusiasts and the likes. After all, she did scratch up my G wagen.

With this being said, I'll come to the point of my post.

Since my G starts suffering from rust in some well known places I need to take action. Even more so now with these scratches, I can live with rust spots on a 16 year old car but (wo)man made scratches ... NO! Can anybody give me some tips on how to take care of the rust problem in such a way that it won't come back for a long time ... preferably never? The scratches will be taking care of once the rust has been battled.

Most likely I am going to do the whole body up and give it a complete new coat(s) of paint. Before I do that or have that done, I would like to find out more about how to treat the body and fix the bad spots in such a way that I won't have to do a similar exercise within let's say 5 years or so.

I'm not in the market for carbon, plastic or any other artificially made body shell parts. Only want to solve the problems by using original body parts and/or restoration of the existing parts.

Please advice on what may be the best way(s) to solve mentioned problems!

Thanks all,

Rick

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#42057

Author

Posted 8/30/2006 5:45 AM

roughneck
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
2000

RE: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

First I sympathise with you and your feelings about this act of agression with your G. If as you say it was the person you think, then look at it like this way, better the anger felt by this person was vented on an inanimate object than a living being.
I was in the company of a lot of old friends last weekend and the subject of the modern army came up and its fixation with counselling and post traumatic battle disorder etc etc.
We concluded, in the old days, You came back from a mission, "stressed" you told your mates how you felt, they listned, took the pi%$, you all got drunk. end of counselling.
I would like to think that you just did that with your mates on the forum.

The G rust. All normal stuff, the rear quarters can be replaced but I recommend that you use genuine parts, they are not expensive. contact G Centre in Adam. Speak to Coore Millenar. he is the boss he will give you all the help you need and recomend a good paint shop near to you.
My method, strip all rust spots back to metal by hand, treat with good quality rust stop, zinc coat then zinc primer then 3 coats of paint. final finish with pro painter and bake.

#42060 - in reply to #42057

Author

Posted 8/30/2006 6:26 AM

Fenalaar
Elite Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
500

Re: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

Here in Norway, we have a company that sells complete kits with an acid-based rust removal solution, rust protection and primer. The rust removal stuff doesn't contain only acid, but some other stuff as well. Perhaps you can manage to get something from them, as you're not all that far from us ? The rust removal stuff is called Corroflux.

You can find them at http://chemical.no/

One of the people at the norwegian offroad forum did some tests of the stuff...

before:

after:

before:

after:

Johan-Kr

#42063 - in reply to #42057

Author

Posted 8/30/2006 6:40 AM

Inkblotz
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
2000

RE: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

The rust you have does not appear to be to bad and just at the beginning surface rust phase. I suggest that you do as I did, take off as much rust as possible with one of the abrasive wheels that you can attach to your drill. Then use a rust converter like POR 15 (http://por15.com/). This stuff is fantastic! The chemical compounds are designed to convert rust to a plastic. It stops the rust dead. It provides an extremely tough surface. I will probably coat the entire inside floor pan of my G at some point with it, as well as inside the fender wells. Then I will paint my G's color over it. BTW etch the surface before painting with a chemical etcher (POR 15 has everthing you need.

Replacing panels at this point I feel is a little excessive.

Mark

Edited by Inkblotz 8/30/2006 6:43 AM

#42064 - in reply to #42057

Author

Posted 8/30/2006 6:50 AM

NorthseaRoughneck
Extreme Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500

RE: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

Thanks so far for your input guys.

I'll be looking into the different tips and acquire information on the mentioned rust protection/prevention/treatment chemicals.

Thanks again,

Rick

PS: Roughneck, I know what you're saying talking and drinking with your mates and you feel better. Problem is tough that I don't drink

#42065 - in reply to #42057

Author

Posted 8/30/2006 8:21 AM

roughneck
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
2000

RE: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

NorthseaRoughneck - 8/30/2006 11:50 AM

PS: Roughneck, I know what you're saying talking and drinking with your mates and you feel better. Problem is tough that I don't drink ;)

Then sit and watch your mates drink your share as well

#42070 - in reply to #42065

Author

Posted 8/30/2006 4:32 PM

Fenalaar
Elite Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
500

Re: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

POR15 is different from Corroflux, then. While POR15 wil convert the rust into something else, Corroflux will remove the rust and leave a fine powder on the surface that you remove with water. Afterwards the surface is ready for primer and paint. Of cource, if there is very much rust, you may need to use filler before priming and painting it.

I think I will go with Corroflux myself.

Johan-Kr

#42127 - in reply to #42057

Author

Posted 8/30/2006 4:43 PM

Inkblotz
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
2000

RE: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

The thing about POR 15's etching chemical is that sounds like it will do the same thing as you discribed. You spray it on and if you leave it on for awhile it will remove all traces of the rust. You then rinse it off, let it dry then apply POR 15. And I say apply Por 15 because if there is any chance of rust returning then the application of POR 15 will help combat it.

And yes if there are voids that need to be filled then you will need to use a little body filler.

Have the folks @ POR 15 send you their informative catalog and then decide which way you want to go.

Everyone has their own solution I just know what works for me.

Thanks
Mark

#42133 - in reply to #42057

Author

Posted 8/30/2006 5:01 PM

roughneck
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
2000

RE: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

"Hammerite" do a whole range of stuff if it available.

#42136 - in reply to #42133

Author

Posted 8/30/2006 7:01 PM

Greg S.
Regular

Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Newfoundland
Vehicle(s): 1985 300GD, 1973 Unimog 416 DOKA
Posts: 51

RE: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

I hate to be the one to say this but.... the corner panels look as though they are rusted through. I'd bet that if you started taking off the rust you will not have much left. Those corners rust from the inside out so that when you see bubbles under the paint it likely started from inside the fender well, take a tire off and have a look in there.

If you are looking to do a complete paint job why not replace the corner panels?

They are not that expensive. The rust at the seam near the corner but below the rear side window may be repairable but you won't find out untill you remove the paint and rust. You should be able to fab some sheet metal and weld it in to look as good as new if you have to go that far.

One thing to keep in mind is that rust isn't just at the point where the paint bubbles, it goes under the paint, kind of like roots on a tree or mold in a wall. If you repair just the visibly affected areas the repair may last only a couple of years untill the rust is back again.

Another point that comes to mind is that bare metal begin to rust immediately when exposed to air and moisture. So even if you have bare shinny steel be sure to use a metal prep prior to painting. I believe the product I use is made by 3M and I bought it at an autobody supply store. One other handy product is weld through zinc primmer. I use this where there are flanges that you will not be able to paint after the panels are welded together and at the same time can't paint it becuse of the welding! The zinc primer will brum where the weld takes place but won't burn off heated areas like normal primer, the zinc primer also doesn't stink as bad as normal primer when it burns.

#42159 - in reply to #42057

Author

Posted 8/31/2006 5:32 AM

DesertStar
Expert

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000

RE: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

The body shops here swear by Por15. I have used it on my floorboards which had mostly surface rust and some bad rust on the sills (where else). I took photos of the process.
I was comfortable to use it on the interior where no one will see it, but for me I would leave any exterior to the professionals.
I use Por15 on everything I paint ...it gets real hard, such that I have painted a piece of steel and beat it with a hammer which didnt seem to bother the coating.

http://www.por15.com/SUPPORT/PERFORMANCETESTRESULTS/POR15TESTRESULT...

I feel what the others posted regarding replacing panels and such is the right thing to do.
By the way, major bummer on the scratch. People like that always bring me back to reality as to how lucky we are to have our sanity and g-wagens. Thats weird, I have never used sanity and G-wagen in the same sentence.

Mike

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#42242 - in reply to #42057

Author

Posted 8/31/2006 3:24 PM

hipine

Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000

I'm ALSO...Looking for tips and advice for treating rust

Have the methods mentined (corroflux and por-15) been used by folks in the specifica application of the bubbling at panel seams? In my experience with those applications either you can't get at the rust that's between the two panels, or if you use an acid etch, then you can't get it fully rinsed, or if you do get it fully rinsed you can't get it effectively primed. Bottom line is the rust at the panel seams keeps coming back.

I have some similar spots that I need to attack. My past efforts proved inadequte until I finally had the panels cutout at the seams.

I'm REALLY interested in hearing anything anyone has to suggest on fighting rust at body seams because I'd be willing to try anything, especially at the base of the windscreen because I know that will be one hefty bill to cut out and replace the windscreen frame.

Please do reply with further details if you can.

-Dave G.

#42313 - in reply to #42057

Author

Posted 8/31/2006 5:13 PM

Fenalaar
Elite Veteran

Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
500

Re: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

Hmm - neither of them will probably be able to do anything with rust inside the seams or on the back of the panels, since the etching fluid need to get to the rust to work.

If the damage is extensive you'll need to do some welding and panel replacement anyway. A lot of rust and a subsequent acid treatment would probably leave the panel looking like belgian lace

Johan-Kr

#42336 - in reply to #42057

Author

Posted 9/1/2006 12:02 AM

03-Gwagen
Elite Veteran

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Vehicle(s): CLK63 Black Series, 2018 G63, 2016 GLE300d
Posts: 888
500

Re: Looking for tips and advice for treating rust spots and fixing a deep scratch

How about electronic rust prevention like http://www.counteractrust.com/ ?

I installed it when the G was new. I have had some minor rust on hinges and mirrors only.

We use alot of chemical desalters on our roads.

I use POR15 underneath on stone abraided areas. POR15 really holds up to the salt and rocks. There used to be a product imported from england by eastwood company called corroless -http://www.corroless.com/ . It was thicker and and more durable than POR15, but now it is not available.

I think the most important thing was installing giant mudflaps. It keeps the underside clean and pretty much eliminated the damage we do to ourselves.

Edited by 03-Gwagen 9/1/2006 12:03 AM

#42401 - in reply to #42336

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