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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| Turbo failure symptoms
I have had a sudden increase in oil consumption, 1 ltr in 200 miles on a 350, I suspect looking at the amount of oil that has suddenly appeared around the turbo area that I have a seals problem, this is after towing a heavy car and trailer to London and back over the weekend, turbo working hard both ways, any one with any experience of this before I tear the turbo down and rebuild it. |
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BusBar
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK. North West / Wales
Vehicle(s): 463 300GDL, 460 280GEL
Posts: 382
| RE: Turbo failure symptoms
The symptoms on my Saab when the turbo expired were not like that. It didn't use oil whilst driving it just chucked out blue smoke on startup when left for 4hrs plus. |
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nadd
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UAE, Dubai
Vehicle(s): G500 2016 LHD, numerous Chevys
Posts: 1285
| Re: Turbo failure symptoms
I dunno what it is with you and rebuilding turbos..but I hope this is not the beginning of the end for this motor..take it easy with the towing will you! |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: Turbo failure symptoms
Sure hope that's all it is. Does your valve cover breather feed into the air inlet pipe ahead of the turbo? I only ask 'cause oil coming to the turbo inlet will find it's way out at the turbo & manifold too. Check and see if you have oil in the air inlet pipe ahead of the turbo. If so, it's probably from piston blowby. If not, the oil's probably coming in at the turbo via the shaft seals. If you rebuild the turbo, take GREAT care to maintain the balance. A little off balance condition will tear up your new bearings, and other stuff, in a hurry. For the cost of a professionally refurbished center section vs a seal kit, it may be worth it to go for the refurbed center. This advice is more so for others who may follow than for you, Bill. I know you have lots of good experience and resources to apply, but rebuilding a turbo isn't for everyone. Man, that's a hellacious rate of consumption. Good luck! -Dave G. |
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Merz-Ben
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN 47119
Vehicle(s): 230G, U1200, U1250 DoKa, U1300L, U1500, U1700, 416
Posts: 377
| RE: Turbo failure symptoms
If it is the turbo failing causing that much oil consumption, there will be excessive end play in the turbine shaft... the "seals" in the turbo's used on MB's are usually brass bearings, and when they wear out you get the bypass of oil and excessive shaft play.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Ben |
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KERR
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Turbo failure symptoms
ive had two sets of twin turbo's die on different toyota supras.
First set the power just went away over time. Then i started get oil smoke etc etc etc..
The second set i ran to much boost one. The turbo started Squeeling like finger nails on a chalk board...
Id check all the piping, from the turbo to the intake, also check the intake to see if anything is loose. If its easy to get to check the return oil line if it has one. Im not sure how they put a diesel G together. Never seen one. |
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Maxwell Smart
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Turbo failure symptoms
That's what you get for towing a 25 foot trailer with over 3 tons of car on it. All while trying to keep up with a G300 TD.
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: Turbo failure symptoms
Bill, Dave above is right - take off the charge air pipe - ie the pipe leading up to the inlet manifold and check for oil in there.
If you loosen the charge air side of the turbo and lift the impeller shaft up and down there should be little or no movement there. |
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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| RE: Turbo failure symptoms
Turbo off, Inspected, seal failure due to swarf from old engine blow up. Centre section renewal and rebuild in progress at Turbo Technics, should be back and fitted pm, thanks for input chaps, a second oppinion often helps before you bite the bullet.
Once again the old halfpenny tar ship rule jumps to mind for whom ever MB tecy fitted the factory rebuild engine.
Edited by roughneck 1/22/2008 2:58 AM
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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| Re: Turbo failure symptoms
Maxwell Smart - 1/22/2008 12:27 AM
That's what you get for towing a 25 foot trailer with over 3 tons of car on it. All while trying to keep up with a G300 TD.
And all that shuntting to get round the tight corners and badly parked Chelsea tractors. can,t beat a shakedown to find the weak spots, better here than in Bolivia or Libya 
Edited by roughneck 1/22/2008 3:04 AM
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hus55
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: north cyprus,lapta.
Vehicle(s): 300GDS, G300 LONG,300GDT CLK55 AMG CAB.
Posts: 2230
| RE: Turbo failure symptoms
sorry to hear of your mis-fortune bill  but you are not easily beaten i guess,being well connected helps 
i am suprised though,considering the amount of money spent on your G by the previous owners  |
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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| RE: Turbo failure symptoms
Thanks Huss, it's all about attention to detail when you do a job, when the new engine was fitted it would have taken just moments to check and clean the turbo/intercooler system, or maybe it was left to create another job for later, or am I being synical. |
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dentsmithy
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2007
Location: NFA
Vehicle(s): 1986 230Ge, , 1979 240gd cabrio, AD-SL
Posts: 912
| Re: Turbo failure symptoms
Maxwell Smart - 1/21/2008 12:27 AM
That's what you get for towing a 25 foot trailer with over 3 tons of car on it. All while trying to keep up with a G300 TD.
I thought you two would have known the first lesson of convoy driving - the car infront should keep to the speed of the car behind - that way the man at the back doesn't get left or blow his turbo.
I bet with that load Bill's fuel consumption was even worse than yours Max  |
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Maxwell Smart
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Turbo failure symptoms
roughneck - 1/22/2008 8:00 AM
And all that shuntting to get round the tight corners and badly parked Chelsea tractors. can,t beat a shakedown to find the weak spots, better here than in Bolivia or Libya :)
Well if you didn't drive like a .... and take 30 mins to turn a "little corner"...
dentsmithy - 1/22/2008 9:42 AM
I thought you two would have known the first lesson of convoy driving - the car infront should keep to the speed of the car behind - that way the man at the back doesn't get left or blow his turbo.
Easier said than done when driving through central London where lights last about two seconds... oh wait I forgot.... roughneck didn't stop for lights....
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dentsmithy
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2007
Location: NFA
Vehicle(s): 1986 230Ge, , 1979 240gd cabrio, AD-SL
Posts: 912
| Re: Turbo failure symptoms
Maxwell Smart - 1/21/2008 9:58 AM
roughneck - 1/22/2008 8:00 AM
And all that shuntting to get round the tight corners and badly parked Chelsea tractors. can,t beat a shakedown to find the weak spots, better here than in Bolivia or Libya :)
Well if you didn't drive like a .... and take 30 mins to turn a "little corner"...
dentsmithy - 1/22/2008 9:42 AM
I thought you two would have known the first lesson of convoy driving - the car infront should keep to the speed of the car behind - that way the man at the back doesn't get left or blow his turbo.
Easier said than done when driving through central London where lights last about two seconds... oh wait I forgot.... roughneck didn't stop for lights....
ooo... all those cameras |
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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| RE: Turbo failure symptoms
OOO those German number plates |
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Maxwell Smart
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: Turbo failure symptoms
roughneck - 1/22/2008 11:50 AM
OOO those German number plates :)
Yes but the cameras are behind you...... and I seem to recall a UK plate on the trailer. |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: Turbo failure symptoms
You got off cheap if all it put into the motor was oil. Lucky the extra shaft play didn't allow some external contact. Maybe verify that with close looks at both housings and fans. You've fallen into my "rather be lucky than good" category with that one. This past weekend I was tracing a wire to help diagnose a grumpy aftermarket water temp gauge. As I reached behind the motor to verify the wire's path, my arm bumped one of the heater hoses and coolant started pouring out! Come to find out a plastic union I'd used in the original assembly was failing right under the clamp. Not fully separated yet, and only leaking enough to weep a trace under the present condtion (weeping not making it to the ground, only leaving a white trace on close inspection as it's above the exhaust pipe), but lying there like a snake in the grass to separate and dump all my coolant in about 30 seconds on some sub-zero midnight drive up the hill most likely. Offending part replaced with a brass union now. More reliable water pipe routing on the list of summer projects! All the best, -Dave G. |
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roughneck
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: UK, Germany & USA
Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2
Posts: 4398
| RE: Turbo failure symptoms
Maxwell Smart - 1/22/2008 11:54 AM
roughneck - 1/22/2008 11:50 AM
OOO those German number plates :) Yes but the cameras are behind you...... and I seem to recall a UK plate on the trailer.
Nope, hand drawn imitation of the German plate.
Dave: the oil was blowing straight past the seal ring on the exhaust side, a tiny piece of swarf had got under it, the burning oil had caused a carbon build on the shaft to make it worse.
Fitted this pm and a lovely test drive to the Welsh borders and back about 150 mile, no oil consumption to note, but a considerable increase in power and a much crisper note from the engine , feels like I got another cylinder. Ts and Ps all in the greens so off we go again.
Edited by roughneck 1/22/2008 2:58 PM
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fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| Re: Turbo failure symptoms
as Kerr pointed correctly the oil return line is often overlooked. Make sure it is not obstructed or so......I had lost a scavenger oil pump (no direct oil return) and all the oil to the turbo charger found its way into the combustion chambers - so much smoke I couldn't see anything behind me anymore.
A good practice for turbo charged engine: do not shut them off immediately after getting to your destination - let the engine idle for a while (few minutes) or if possible reduce the workload on the turbo (less boost) for the last few miles. It is amazing how much 600F to 800F hot exhaust gases can "cool" a turbo charger when the TIT (Turbine Inlet Temp) is around 1375F!
BTW I did manage to destroy a TC at 11000 feet altitude, but luckily the than "normally" aspirated engine still got me to my destination including a safe landing.....
Small electric oil pumps are used to pump/cool the turbo with engine oil after shut-down, controlled by a timer - another good way of cooling the turbo and reducing the carbon built up on the shaft/seals...... |
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