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superG
Member
Date registered: Apr 2011
Location: Htown, TX
Vehicle(s): LX 570, SQ5
Posts: 37
| Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
This rattle/clicking noise started yesterday when I was on my way home from a roadtrip.
At first it felt like a stuck rock but after checking everything, it was still there. Occurs during acceration and freqency speeds up as faster you go.
No issues with shifting or driveability, if noise was not there, I would not think there was anything wrong.
Transfer case? U-Joint.. heat shields?...
It's going to dealership in few days but wanted to see if anyone has ideal of problem..
Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgbZ6MGmwdA
Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlzy6aUNATQ |
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leomd
Member
Date registered: Nov 2013
Location: Miami, Florida
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500-Bessie
Posts: 33
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
From my Range Rover days you always knew when the transfer case was going because upon a sharp turn either a rear wheel would bind up or your would hear some severe grinding/clanking noises not consistent with what you have. Because the front prop travels at different speed than rear upon a turn a bad T-case would usually give itself away fairly quickly.
From the clicking sound I would assume its either a bad u joint with play or something is mechanically hitting the prop shafts that you can not see.
I would put the car/t-case in neutral, get underneath it and spin the prop shaft by hand checking for any play at the ujoints. You may feel play upon turning it to a specific place and only that place, so spinning it is essential. If you discover any play at all in the u-joint...it is most likely your culprit. Another idea would be to lube the u-joints and see if there is a difference or improvement in sound upon your drive. |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
I'd guess that one of the axle CV joints is bad.
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94rover
Veteran
Date registered: Oct 2010
Location: 39.2036° N, 76.8569° W
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
Posts: 240
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Catalytic Converter Rattle? |
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superG
Member
Date registered: Apr 2011
Location: Htown, TX
Vehicle(s): LX 570, SQ5
Posts: 37
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Thanks for viewing/replies.
leomd - Does testing for prop shaft/u joint spin require G to be jacked up? I did put it in N (engine on) but was not jacked up. Could barely move the prop shalf (1/4" in either direction)
94rover - cat rattle, is that audible if vehicle is stationary and engine reving?
Additional information- Few months ago, I had a knocking noise when turning steering wheels at slow speeds and dealer replaced drag link/steering gear and that problem went away. I also had the TC in neutral issue previously and some module was replaced.
The noise is only in D and occasionally on R (I've only heard it a few times in R during F/R test). Noise also only comes during power. Turning left/right produces no noise unless it's getting power.
Gentle pressing of gas pedal at <10-15mph, I can't hear the noise but harder acc. and anything over those speeds it's noticeable.
I noticed the rattle near White Sands, NM and was worried enough to cut trip short and drove straight back to Houston. If it was a transfer case issue, would I've been able to drive such a distance (800+miles) and at West Texas highway speeds (80mph)? |
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leomd
Member
Date registered: Nov 2013
Location: Miami, Florida
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500-Bessie
Posts: 33
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
From your videos (great job with the under chasis cam) the clicking seems driveline (torque) related to me. If you had a rattle in the cats you would hear a less distinctive sound upon heavy acceleration without being in gear. Your car also seems too young to have cat rattle - usually after many years the honeycomb of the cat disintegrates and rattles around but causes more of a subtle tinny rattle sound that is increased with throttle not torque.
An Axle CV is very possible but usually you get more of a clicking sound upon turns...but not always. You basically have 3 drive shafts, one from the tansmission to the t-case with cv-joints and then the two prop shafts with ujoints going from the tcase to the axles. Standard cv-joints are designed to last to 100k miles but can go sooner or later. I would start by looking at all three of these shafts moving them laterally to see if any play exists.
You will need to put the t-case and car in neutral to effectively spin the prop shafts.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/g-class/174677-2002-g500-shifting-t...
Dont forget to do this on flat ground and put your e-brake on as your car will roll like crazy.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
For what it's worth, the inconsistency, the frequency spectrum of the sound itself, as well as the repetition rate don't seem like a CV or a Cat rattle to me. The repetition rate seems higher than axle speed and maybe as fast as drive shaft speed. The high frequency content of the sound seems to imply a small metal object hitting another one as the source. Have you cycled your lockers? Can you find some place soft and drive the truck with the lockers on to see if that changes things?
Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who can;t find the source of a vibration in his own truck. 
Nice job with the Go Pro - I may have to try one in my search.
- FD
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superG
Member
Date registered: Apr 2011
Location: Htown, TX
Vehicle(s): LX 570, SQ5
Posts: 37
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
I'm taking it in first thing Tuesday. Have not tested lockers, last time I used the lockers in Arkansas (2 years ago) it wouldn't unlock so crawled 30 mins out of Buffalo River and flat bed to Little Rock where they had to clean out the line? Ever since that time, I haven't gone anywhere far offroad that required usage and the fear of another stuck lockers has kept me from testing again BUT I "should" cycle thru them every once in a while.
The recording was done on a Lecia D-Lux 5 camera which I taped to the frame. Wife wasn't happy that I used her camera. At least it wasn't my Sony A7R.
Fingers cross that it wont be an expensive repair bill as it just came out of warranty few months ago. |
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djdinaz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Arizona
Vehicle(s): 03 G55
Posts: 439
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
crawl under your truck and look at your front u-joint. A pic from the first video (I tried a frame grab) @ around 00:28. It looks cracked.
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 ujoint.jpg (23KB - 1 downloads)
ujoint2.jpg (10KB - 2 downloads)
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Floobydust
Veteran
Date registered: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Vehicle(s): 1995 E320 Cabrio, 2003 G500, 2000 SL500, 1980 TR8
Posts: 284
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Nice catch! You can also see where the U-joint end cap appears to have pulled away from the yoke at the bottom of the photo. A crack in the U-joint yoke fits with the sound track quite nicely.
Edited by Floobydust 11/9/2014 8:24 PM
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superG
Member
Date registered: Apr 2011
Location: Htown, TX
Vehicle(s): LX 570, SQ5
Posts: 37
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Wasn't able to find any cracks
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2.jpg (198KB - 2 downloads)
3.jpg (293KB - 1 downloads)
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
I recently had a similar "click, click, click" noise coming from the transfer case area of my recently purchased 2000 G500.
While tracking it down I found that both rubber boots on the homeokinetic shaft were cracked. I pumped some grease into the boot and the clicking ceased immediately. That was 2 -3 months ago and it has yet to return. A new shaft goes in the week after next.
I'm not sure what mechanics are behind the boot. When I get it off I'll explore further to see what it could have been.
This is the shaft between the transmission and the transfer case. It might be worth a look.
Edited by Gilamonster 11/10/2014 1:18 AM
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superG
Member
Date registered: Apr 2011
Location: Htown, TX
Vehicle(s): LX 570, SQ5
Posts: 37
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Dealer ended up replacing both transmission and transfer case mounts. Anxiously waiting for flatbed to deliver it. |
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
superG - 11/14/2014 11:22 AM
Dealer ended up replacing both transmission and transfer case mounts. Anxiously waiting for flatbed to deliver it.
Did that solve the clicking? |
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superG
Member
Date registered: Apr 2011
Location: Htown, TX
Vehicle(s): LX 570, SQ5
Posts: 37
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
At first it seemed to be fixed but I was only driving short distances (8 miles) in normal city driving. Today I did a 50mile RT for groceries and rattle came back. This was at freeway speeds. At first it was barely noticeable but level of rattle increased. Appears as vehicle/metal heats up, the rattle comes back. Driving back home at 20-30mph, rattle is now noticeable.
Back to dealership soon. |
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Bummer.sorry to hear that. Maybe the exhaust? |
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Gilamonster - 11/18/2014 8:50 PM
Bummer.sorry to hear that. Maybe the exhaust?
Sorry, I watched the video again and definitely not the exhaust. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
sounds like a drive shaft related bearing (pinions, transfer case)
drain fluids and check for metal flakes
I would start with the transfer case
if none of the three - maybe the center drive shaft CVs |
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chris505
Date registered: May 2007
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle(s): '79 280E/'80 280GE/'00 G500
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Check the operation of all 3 diff locks, if one of them does not work as intended you may have the culprit.
If the diff locks were ever abused, broken off pieces of the diff lock teeth could ruin expensive moving parts inside the axles or tcase. |
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superG
Member
Date registered: Apr 2011
Location: Htown, TX
Vehicle(s): LX 570, SQ5
Posts: 37
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Checked the drive shaft CV and noticed the rear CV has some grease splatter (no idea how long it's been there). Not able to feel any cracks in the rubber.
Video Part 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs_uMLSLoPs |
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superG
Member
Date registered: Apr 2011
Location: Htown, TX
Vehicle(s): LX 570, SQ5
Posts: 37
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Managed to finally find the crack.
(I forget that I'm on a 3200x screen at times)
 (crack.jpg)
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crack.jpg (240KB - 1 downloads)
crack1.jpg (180KB - 1 downloads)
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
superG - 11/19/2014 11:33 AM
Managed to finally find the crack.
(I forget that I'm on a 3200x screen at times)
Same thing happened to my G500 several months ago. I pumped some grease into it and was silenced - bought me some time. I replaced it this week.
I'm going to take the old one apart to search for the cause of the clicking noise. I wonder how long the original would have lasted with regular greasing?
Question for the more experienced members; should the homeokinetic shaft be greased thru the boots using a needle zirc once they get some age on them? What could it hurt and would it add to the longevity?
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
I've been using a needle adapter and grease too. It does quiet down the CVs, and might prolong their life indefinitely. However, the boots will eventually degrade to the point where they won't hold in the grease at all.
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gerryvz
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Vehicle(s): 1994 G320, 1989 560SEC, 1994 E500 (W124)
Posts: 336
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Congrats on the find !
Curious - Which dealer are you using here in Houston?
Edited by gerryvz 11/20/2014 5:33 PM
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
the clicking you hear are the balls in the cage without sufficient lubrication
I have tried re-greasing and rebuilding - if balls and cage show signs of wear, it is a waste of time
http://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Cars/G500-center-drive-shaft/i-pJ...
only a new shaft will make your G happy:
http://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Cars/New-center-drive-shaft-G500/
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balls.jpg (157KB - 0 downloads)
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Agreed. By the time you hear clicking the CVs are way past any repair.
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leomd
Member
Date registered: Nov 2013
Location: Miami, Florida
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500-Bessie
Posts: 33
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Unfortunately this is common with most dealerships...they love to throw parts at issues without proper diagnosis. Land Rover dealerships are even worse.
When I read your post about the dealership replacing mounts I just sighed. My vote is center driveline CV's. I will be an optimist here and assume if you had internal damage to the diffs Or TC you would have seen/heard the problem get worse (much worse) with the hundreds of miles you put on the car after the issue begun. It appears to me in your new video the clicking is subtle and less frequent. I would assume the stiffer new mounts allow less flex of the engine and drivetrain thus making sound less dramatic...which would point to driveline.
Another option would be to find a G-specialist Indy mechanic in your area - may save you money and help solve your issue faster.
Hang in there and let us know how it goes.
Edited by leomd 11/21/2014 1:59 PM
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jmr89
Date registered: Nov 2012
Location: France
Vehicle(s): Class G W463 320Cab V6 >>Ancien 230 GE Cab 1990
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Before dismantling it is necessary to make marks
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Yes it is. Mark the position of both CV joints relative to the T/C and the Transmission flanges. I would also mark the position of the boot clamps and the CVs to the short shaft as well. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
AlanMcR - 11/20/2014 2:23 PM
I've been using a needle adapter and grease too. It does quiet down the CVs, and might prolong their life indefinitely. However, the boots will eventually degrade to the point where they won't hold in the grease at all.
Alan,
What grease do you recommend for this, and where is the best place to do the stick? 15 yr old CV's and counting. |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
DUTCH - 11/26/2014 4:53 AM AlanMcR - 11/20/2014 2:23 PM I've been using a needle adapter and grease too. It does quiet down the CVs, and might prolong their life indefinitely. However, the boots will eventually degrade to the point where they won't hold in the grease at all.
Alan, What grease do you recommend for this, and where is the best place to do the stick? 15 yr old CV's and counting. Out of expediency, I put in the high pressure extra-sticky grease that I've been pumping into u-joints. Probably not ideal, but the reality is that the CV lives a pretty easy life (were it not for the boots cracking).
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
AlanMcR - 11/26/2014 12:28 PM DUTCH - 11/26/2014 4:53 AM AlanMcR - 11/20/2014 2:23 PM I've been using a needle adapter and grease too. It does quiet down the CVs, and might prolong their life indefinitely. However, the boots will eventually degrade to the point where they won't hold in the grease at all.
Alan, What grease do you recommend for this, and where is the best place to do the stick? 15 yr old CV's and counting. Out of expediency, I put in the high pressure extra-sticky grease that I've been pumping into u-joints. Probably not ideal, but the reality is that the CV lives a pretty easy life (were it not for the boots cracking).
And the brand/type of grease is? Where's the best place to make the stick in the boot?
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
The last tube I have is in the grease gun. Definitely don't want to open that thing up until empty. It wasn't anything all that special. Ideally, one would use a tube of GKN CV Grease. I didn't happen to have one handy. The needle stick should be as close to the center shaft as possible. Ideally, one would loosen the small clamp and slip the needle between the boot and the shaft.
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
AlanMcR - 11/26/2014 11:24 PM
The last tube I have is in the grease gun. Definitely don't want to open that thing up until empty. It wasn't anything all that special. Ideally, one would use a tube of GKN CV Grease. I didn't happen to have one handy. The needle stick should be as close to the center shaft as possible. Ideally, one would loosen the small clamp and slip the needle between the boot and the shaft.
Thanks Alan. Any good recommendation based on your experience as to how much (how many pumps of the grease gun) grease to inject? |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
the main challenge of injecting grease into the boots is the fact that there is no escape for air
one would need 2 small holes in the boot - one to inject, one to have grease/air come out
holes should be as close to the shaft as possible
otherwise the rotational force will eject the new grease through the holes
so, the greasing should be done with the shaft removed and careful opening/closing of the boots |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
4x4abc - 11/27/2014 9:49 AM
the main challenge of injecting grease into the boots is the fact that there is no escape for air
one would need 2 small holes in the boot - one to inject, one to have grease/air come out
I have a hunch that any excess pressure will vent out through the injection hole once the needle is removed. |
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superG
Member
Date registered: Apr 2011
Location: Htown, TX
Vehicle(s): LX 570, SQ5
Posts: 37
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
gerryvz - 11/20/2014 4:31 PM
Congrats on the find !
Curious - Which dealer are you using here in Houston?
I've been taking all my MBs to Clear Lake (old Arod) MB. Best service with flat bed pickup/loaner car drop offs etc.
G was in the shop during the Thanksgiving week so I ended up buying a new Grand Cherokee Summit to use as main travel suv for the moment. |
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Isn't there a Refurbish kit that is sold with two new CVs that you can then attach to the shaft and then...alles gut? Rather than replacing the entire shaft? |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
H1LM002G55 - 12/2/2014 8:00 AM ] Isn't there a Refurbish kit that is sold with two new CVs that you can then attach to the shaft and then...alles gut? Rather than replacing the entire shaft? Yes. I've got the kit. The problem is that, so far, I have been unable to loosen the bolts. The three I have removed (to keep balanced) were cut off. The shafts are also available in different lengths. This would be useful for people swapping in different engines.
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
AlanMcR - 12/2/2014 12:29 PM
H1LM002G55 - 12/2/2014 8:00 AM ] Isn't there a Refurbish kit that is sold with two new CVs that you can then attach to the shaft and then...alles gut? Rather than replacing the entire shaft? Yes. I've got the kit. The problem is that, so far, I have been unable to loosen the bolts. The three I have removed (to keep balanced) were cut off. The shafts are also available in different lengths. This would be useful for people swapping in different engines.
Which bolts were cut off??? |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
I have done the re-greasing (too late, including cutting off bolts)
did work for 2 weeks
I have done the rebuild kit
did work for 2 years
http://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Cars/G500-center-drive-shaft/
then I stuck a new shaft in
3 years and counting
http://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Cars/New-center-drive-shaft-G500/
for peace of mind - get a new shaft and many years of good service
re-grease before (BEFORE) the CV goes bad - around 70,000 miles
then it has the potential to live "forever"
by the way, the new shafts come with a new style bolt that will no longer strip
Edited by 4x4abc 12/2/2014 1:00 PM
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
What damaged the bolts and micro-encapsulation nuts????? |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
H1LM002G55 - 12/2/2014 2:16 PM What damaged the bolts and micro-encapsulation nuts????? Corrosion. My G lived in Germany for 6 years. The bolt shafts and the CV body have "become one". You can't exert enough twist on the hex socket. They just round out. This would be a 30 minute job if MB had used torx head bolts.
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Wow...I had no idea. That is crazy.
I imagine you tried Kroil and those sorts of potions and lotions? (3M Stainless Steel cleaner spray is amazing for some reason in freeing rusted parts from what I have seen)... |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
After several rounds of penetrating oil over most of a week, Vadim and I took another crack at getting the shaft out. After some grunting, cursing and the application of quality tools, there is now a rebuild shaft under the G. The xfer case handle doesn't wobble on acceleration now! No particular precautions were taken on positioning the clips, just 180 degrees between the large and small clips on each end. Ran it up to 85mph on the freeway and it is smooth as silk.  (Very big thank you to Vadim!) The needle re-greasing seemed to be pretty successful at getting grease throughout the CV joint. I think it might have started too late though. I'm of the opinion that rebuilding these joints every 70-100 thousand miles would extend the life indefinitely. All one needs for a rebuild is a new rubber boot (actually plastic), sealant (hylomar, Loctite 518, etc), 12 new nuts, and the GKN grease. We coated the entire length of the bolts with sealant in attempt to prevent the rust-together problem. Bolts go in with 50-60nm.
Frankly, the six bolt mounting of the shaft ends is a bit of overkill. I've been running with 3 bolts on one end for about 100K miles. So, there may be no actual need for replacing the nuts. Then again, they are cheap.
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
AlanMcR and G-AMG:
I read G-AMG's post about re-greasing the center driveshaft before performing this procedure on the 500GE.
I read the G-AMG post thoroughly, TWICE.
It *never* occurred to me that there would be the potential for having a problem extracting the bolts due to corrosion/rust. I am lucky and do not have that problem to deal with and had no issues extracting the hex head bolts.
As per G-AMG's post, I DID purchase new micro-encapsulating nuts (mandatory) along with new Torx mounting bolts for the center prop shaft.
That being said, I would like to update G-AMG's tech thread to include the following:
A) A warning note that it is possible to re-use the Hex Head Bolts, BUT, it is highly recommended that you buy the new TORX bolts to reduce the risk of rounding off one of the fasteners in the future.
B) A recommendation that every 70K Miles / 5 years, the Center Driveshaft be re-greased.
Update with part number and picture of the kit. I did purchase this kit from MB/GKN with GKN grease in tubes and the new plastic boots.
C) A part number of the MB kit for those that need to rebuild the two CV joints / homokinetic joints...with the recommendation that they just buy a new prop shaft instead as it probably costs less money to buy a new center drive shaft compared to the price for parts and labor to rebuild the short, center drive shaft.
Thoughts on updating the G-AMG Tech Post with the above?
Edited by H1LM002G55 12/6/2014 11:31 PM
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
A) I had the short shaft out of my 99 G500 several times and never had a problem with the hex bolts. Preparation was the key; a liberal spraying of your choice of lubricant. I would say only that the TORX bolts are available.
B) Agreed with regard to the re-greasing but with the caveat that if the boots are in good condition then there's no reason to replace them.
C) This bears no economic sense. Two CV joints cost a third of a new prop shaft. It's a relatively easy DIY job but you just need to take care in the reassembly.
Edited by MiN 12/7/2014 7:29 AM
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
AlanMcR - 12/6/2014 10:44 PM
The needle re-greasing seemed to be pretty successful at getting grease throughout the CV joint. Any recommendations on how much grease to pump in there?
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
MiN - 12/7/2014 7:24 AM
Two CV joints cost a third of a new prop shaft. It's a relatively easy DIY job but you just need to take care in the reassembly.
The aftermarket GKN shaft is not really much more than the cost of the two CV rebuild kits, especially when considering the labor involved in a rebuild. Also, you have a better shot at it being properly balanced, too. |
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
MiN - 12/7/2014 7:24 AM
A) I had the short shaft out of my 99 G500 several times and never had a problem with the hex bolts. Preparation was the key; a liberal spraying of your choice of lubricant. I would say only that the TORX bolts are available.
B) Agreed with regard to the re-greasing but with the caveat that if the boots are in good condition then there's no reason to replace them.
C) This bears no economic sense. Two CV joints cost a third of a new prop shaft. It's a relatively easy DIY job but you just need to take care in the reassembly.
A1) I believe it is easier to strip a Hex Head than a Torx Head. If so, the Torx Head is recommended and cheap insurance.
My head head bolts were reusable, I saved them, but switched to TORX when I did the job.
B2) Agree here, too. Provided that you removed the boots without damaging the thin metal casting that holds the boot to the cup/metal frame/mounting plate.
C3) I disagree. Please check the price of the two CV joints again. The re-build kits are costly and the price of a new shaft isn't much more as Dutch pointed out.
I spoke to Graz and mentioned this in detail in an earlier post, but there is no balancing necessary on the center driveshaft according to them. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
H1LM002G55 - 12/7/2014 3:31 PM
I spoke to Graz and mentioned this in detail in an earlier post, but there is no balancing necessary on the center driveshaft according to them.
That's interesting, in that the WIS is quite specific about how to align that centre shaft when mounting it. Maybe that's been updated. |
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Re the CV repair kit prices; of course I checked the retail prices before posting. However, if there is a cheaper source for the entire prop shaft, as Dutch writes, then the source for that ought to be better known, especially for those outside Eu or NA. Might there then also be a cheaper source for the CV kits?
Regarding the hex v torx bolts, I think we need more opinions on that before changing G-AMG's post.
The non-balancing requirement confirmation is good news! |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
MiN - 12/8/2014 2:09 AM
Re the CV repair kit prices; of course I checked the retail prices before posting. However, if there is a cheaper source for the entire prop shaft, as Dutch writes, then the source for that ought to be better known, especially for those outside Eu or NA. Might there then also be a cheaper source for the CV kits?
Eurotruck Importers. http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info... |
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H1LM002G55
Expert
Date registered: Mar 2010
Location: S Florida / Geneva / Jeddah
Vehicle(s): 500 GE, G55, LM002, H1
Posts: 1796
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
MiN - 12/8/2014 2:09 AM
Regarding the hex v torx bolts, I think we need more opinions on that before changing G-AMG's post.
You and I were lucky as we did not have bolt corrosion issues to deal with when removing our HEX bolts.
That being said, it is well known that a Torx Head will accept greater torque than a Hex Head of the equivalent size, provided the proper size bit is used!
AlanMcR commented that he felt he would have had an easier time if he were able to apply more force to remove the seized bolts...Hence my suggestion for recommending the TORX fasteners. Graz had to make the change for some reason.
Edited by H1LM002G55 12/8/2014 8:48 AM
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MiN
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Alpujarras, Spain
Vehicle(s): No cars, at all.
Posts: 555
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Dutch, thanks for the link. I had a look at Sean's site. The GKN shafts vary from $875 - $975, depending on year. The GKN repair kit would be $430 for both. That's a huge saving. Bearing in mind that there's no balancing requirement, I don't think we can advocate buying a new shaft instead of repairing your old one. |
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superG
Member
Date registered: Apr 2011
Location: Htown, TX
Vehicle(s): LX 570, SQ5
Posts: 37
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
G drives like a new car now after the shaft replacement. I should be good until 200k (almost 125k now) |
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
superG - 12/8/2014 2:24 PM
G drives like a new car now after the shaft replacement. I should be good until 200k (almost 125k now)
Good news. Mine was replaced last week too.
One thing I've noticed is that the vibration of the transfer case high/low shifter (2000 G500) has been notably minimized.
My mechanic (Marc Beyer) suggested that the engine, transmission and TC mounts should now be replaced. He noticed excessive movement in them all. Perhaps it should be considered that the worn mounts are root of the problem which leads to the compromise to the shaft boots due to the excessive movement (beyond design spec of the shaft) of the components it is connected to... And the new shaft's rigidity is compensating for the worn out mounts hence the post replacement reduced shifter vibration.
If this is indeed the case then without addressing the mounts then the life of HK shaft #2 will be notably shorter than that of shaft #1.
In this scenario the TC shifter excessive movement is an indicator of a mounts issue. For the sake of discussion it would be interesting to know what a similar early indicator would be for vehicle with an electric TC case switch as opposed to the manual shifter. Possibly another advantage of the pre-MBUSA system?
Thoughts?
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
The engine, transmission and TC mounts are designed such that even if the rubber fell out they would still limit the total movement to within a fairly small domain. The allowable shaft angle is 10 18 degrees (on each end, I think). I don't think that the mounts are capable of moving enough to get the shaft outside of its design limits, or even near to the limit for that matter..
Edited by AlanMcR 12/8/2014 11:48 PM
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WEBIII
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Oct 2010
Location: Inlet Beach, FL
Vehicle(s): 461.318, 463.241
Posts: 315
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
Gilamonster - 12/8/2014 9:37 PM
Good news. Mine was replaced last week too.
One thing I've noticed is that the vibration of the transfer case high/low shifter (2000 G500) has been notably minimized.
My mechanic (Marc Beyer) suggested that the engine, transmission and TC mounts should now be replaced. He noticed excessive movement in them all. Perhaps it should be considered that the worn mounts are root of the problem which leads to the compromise to the shaft boots due to the excessive movement (beyond design spec of the shaft) of the components it is connected to... And the new shaft's rigidity is compensating for the worn out mounts hence the post replacement reduced shifter vibration.
If this is indeed the case then without addressing the mounts then the life of HK shaft #2 will be notably shorter than that of shaft #1.
In this scenario the TC shifter excessive movement is an indicator of a mounts issue. For the sake of discussion it would be interesting to know what a similar early indicator would be for vehicle with an electric TC case switch as opposed to the manual shifter. Possibly another advantage of the pre-MBUSA system?
Thoughts?
Just curious how many miles are on your 2000? |
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
AlanMcR - 12/8/2014 9:41 PM
The engine, transmission and TC mounts are designed such that even if the rubber fell out they would still limit the total movement to within a fairly small domain. The allowable shaft angle is 10 18 degrees (on each end, I think). I don't think that the mounts are capable of moving enough to get the shaft outside of its design limits, or even near to the limit for that matter..
Thanks Alan. Good info. At this point I'm still inclined to replace the mounts as per the mechanic's suggestion. Minimizing play of the drivetrain components can only be of benefit to the system as a whole.
I knew that I would need to make a significant investment in this old G when I bought it and I'd like to keep it running great for another 10 years at least. It will be my wife's car so I need it to be safe and sound.
When I bought it this summer it ran smooth and strong even though it needed $15k of work. I see that as a testament to this 2000 G500. Now that the work is almost complete it is even better! Smooth, quiet and powerful. I'm impressed.
William |
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| Re: Rattle/Clicking Noise underneath G500 (with video)
WEBIII - 12/9/2014 9:23 AM
Gilamonster - 12/8/2014 9:37 PM
Good news. Mine was replaced last week too.
One thing I've noticed is that the vibration of the transfer case high/low shifter (2000 G500) has been notably minimized.
My mechanic (Marc Beyer) suggested that the engine, transmission and TC mounts should now be replaced. He noticed excessive movement in them all. Perhaps it should be considered that the worn mounts are root of the problem which leads to the compromise to the shaft boots due to the excessive movement (beyond design spec of the shaft) of the components it is connected to... And the new shaft's rigidity is compensating for the worn out mounts hence the post replacement reduced shifter vibration.
If this is indeed the case then without addressing the mounts then the life of HK shaft #2 will be notably shorter than that of shaft #1.
In this scenario the TC shifter excessive movement is an indicator of a mounts issue. For the sake of discussion it would be interesting to know what a similar early indicator would be for vehicle with an electric TC case switch as opposed to the manual shifter. Possibly another advantage of the pre-MBUSA system?
Thoughts?
Just curious how many miles are on your 2000?
About 137k miles. |
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