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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Transmission rebuild
I have a 1999 G500 with 120K miles on it. I got the truck with 84K miles and it has been a great problem free driver. A few weeks ago I took it into the dealer for a 60K mile service including new plugs, trans flush, and service A. A week and a half later I came out of work, started the truck up and it would not go into gear. it was also running at rough high idle. Towed it back to the dealer and got quoted $5800 for a Mercedes rebuilt trans including torque convertor, plus labor. I opted to have them send the box down to Sun Valley Mercedes Transmissions in Van Nuys CA. They are $2000 for a rebuild including the torque convertor, plus shipping each way. Dealer will be discounting the labor as the temporal relation to the trans service is a glaring issue with me.
The question I have is whether a trans flush or pressurized flush of some sort could lead to this kind of failure?
I have offroaded in it using full torque creeping on slickrock lately and every now and then will tow a tractor with mower (7000#) to my forestry property.
I think the rough idle was the car in gear with issues despite being in "P." When we towed it out of the structure, it could drive forward in "N," but was in not in gear in "D" and the 1-4 gear positions.
The carnage:
Edited by otiswesty 8/25/2015 8:20 PM
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Transmission rebuild
Ouch! Sure is a coincidence that it blew up right after the dealer messed with it. Give 'em Hell! |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| RE: Transmission rebuild
By the looks of the picture, you are going to need a replacement transmission. Although I would seriously question on what the failure was. It's just too much of a coincidence, and they may have caused the failure by accidently leaving something loose in the transmission (like a small nut or something)... The word GRENADE comes to mind.
Edited by Braingears 8/25/2015 9:42 PM
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Aircruiser
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2011
Location: Atlanta GA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500, 1986 300GD, 2017 Porsche Cayenne Hybrid
Posts: 364
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Ouch! |
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NYG500
Member
Date registered: Aug 2014
Location: NJ/NY
Vehicle(s): 2007 G500
Posts: 43
| Re: Transmission rebuild
No problems for 120k then boom right after a service! all signs point to them doing something incorrectly. I have read nothing but great things about sun valley transmissions your sure to get a quality rebuild. Good luck keep us updated! |
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or_550i
Veteran
Date registered: Oct 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle(s): 1984 280GE Europa, 2003 G500
Posts: 264
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Was the flush from the Wilsonville dealer? |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Downtown Portland MB dealer.
Rebuilt original box is being shipped back to Portland today.
Aside from some labor rate discount, I will likely have to just suck it up. I have a good relationship with the dealer here. I am also getting a small main seal leak fixed at the same time and intermediate shaft service as well, so should be good for another 60K miles with just A's and B's. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
There is a brass input shaft carrier bearing that is susceptible to wear and failure. When this wears, excessive play occurs causing damage to the forward spider gear bearing which will subsequently disintegrate and send the spider rollers into the planetary gears causing damage similar to that shown in the photo. They use a milled input shaft that accepts a roller bearing with much longer service life, essentially eliminating the chance of a similar failure in the foreseeable future. |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| RE: Transmission rebuild
So this exonerates the dealer for the transmission fluid change and flush then? |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
This is info from Marc at SVMT, it is hard to say what the role of the flush may have had in this process. He said that this is a common type of failure for this transmission. |
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atg
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle(s): 2005 G55, 1985 300tdt
Posts: 129
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Maybe the mechanic took it for a joy ride. Maybe it is all just a coincidence. FWIW I had Marc rebuild the one on my wagon on general principle at 185k. They don't last forever. At least it didn't leave you stranded in a remote locale. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| RE: Transmission rebuild
The transmission has gone back in.
The small main seal leak is fixed and hooray the intermediate shaft CV joints look perfect (with new grease).
I should be getting big blue back next week. 
Edited by otiswesty 9/4/2015 1:49 AM
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| RE: 1999 G500 Transmission rebuild
So, I have been having a few issues since picking up the G in early September. The G drives and shifts perfectly, but occasionally will not start in P.
When I went to pick it up after the trans replacement, I was waiting for an eternity and finally they came out and said they could not start the vehicle. It had been sitting for 2 weeks waiting for the trans to be returned, but was test driven earlier that day. I guess they got it going, because it was out front about 15 minutes later. I drove it home without trying to show much concern. The mat behind the front seats had clearly been pulled and hastily replaced, I guess they must have been surprised to not find the battery there. I had been planning on eventually replacing the current water filled battery that was installed by Europa or some previous owner. The truck had been sold under contract by Europa last in late 2010.
A couple days later, I had a no start in the garage before work. I fiddled around a bit with the shifter and discovered that it would start in "N" but not "P." This intermittent no start in "P" continued on and off seemingly randomly. Not really being sure what was going on, I ordered a new battery at the dealer and replaced the old (age unknown) battery with a new AGM Mercedes battery. There was no change in the starting issues. still on starting seemingly randomly. I had also ordered a new shifter thinking that there may be a relationship between the shift position sensor and the non-start issue.
Previously in 2012, I had replaced parts number 280 290 and 330 on this parts diagram. At the time, I had multiple issues including a reverse switch failure, buggered up shift numbering, and a degraded shifter shutter. It was a real beauty after that and everything worked great. Part 280 has teh reverse switch and also has the shift indicator switch and thus is only 3-3 1/2 years old right now. Not sure if the problem was related to additional problems with the shifter, but I decided I would be better off replacing it myself at wholesale parts cost rather than take the G back into the dealer and pay full retail for a likely dealer replacement of this unit. So, I have had this sitting on my workbench for the last 6 weeks.
When I replaced the battery a couple of weeks ago, I noticed the ground strap was looking a little rough. I ordered up a new one and I took some time this nice weekend to replace it with the MB supplied new part yesterday afternoon.
This morning the G will not start at all. Time to finally replace the shifter, I thought.
I got the shifter in after a bunch of mucking about. Still no start.
I pulled and cleaned all the contact surfaces on the ground strap. I have 12v+ at the battery, same under the hood. I swapped out the K40 relay with a used spare I have just in case, but it made no difference.
Scratching my head here. Please advise if you have any ideas.
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: 1999 G500 Transmission rebuild
The first thing I would do is to make sure the fat +12 to the starter is tight. Might want to clean and re-install it. Failing that, drop the fuse box and find the two large red wires (~5mm copper). These supply most of the +12 to the rest if the circuitry. Check that they are tight, have 12V, and that the 12V stays when you try to crank.
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| RE: Transmission rebuild
When I was checking out the tranny after putting everything back together this evening, I pulled the large round multi-pin plug that locks into it. It looked like there was some significant ATF contamination. I was reading on Benzworld just now about ATF seepage past the O-rings here and the potential for fluid to wick up the cable and damage the Transmission Control Module. Hopefully this is not the case. As the vehicle does not start, I may just tow it back in.
First I would like to pull the TCM and see if it is flooded with ATF. I am not sure if this in the electronics box under the hood?
Read this too.
http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=19676&st...
Oh yeah just remembered during my many attempts to start the car, one time that I turned the key and all the windows went down. Next turn the sunroof popped up.
That's when I decided to try replacing the K40! |
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Roly
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle(s): 1999 G500
Posts: 661
| RE: 1999 G500 Transmission rebuild
Do you know that the battery earth strap is a two part arrangement. There is the one in the battery compartment (which you replaced) going to the body and then a second external strap going from the same body connector bolt to the chassis. This second strap is concealed behind the rear bumper. Ensure that the connection between the two straps is clean as you will have disturbed it when you replaced the battery earth cable.
If you want to eliminate the gearbox selector as a fault you can ground the ecu pin D19 directly. Or you can check that it is being grounded when the selector is moved to P/N. The K40 should not be able to stop the cranking. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Transmission rebuild
otiswesty - 11/30/2015 2:40 AM
When I was checking out the tranny after putting everything back together this evening, I pulled the large round multi-pin plug that locks into it. It looked like there was some significant ATF contamination. I was reading on Benzworld just now about ATF seepage past the O-rings here and the potential for fluid to wick up the cable and damage the Transmission Control Module. Hopefully this is not the case. As the vehicle does not start, I may just tow it back in.
First I would like to pull the TCM and see if it is flooded with ATF. I am not sure if this in the electronics box under the hood?
Item #32 in the attached parts diagram.
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: 1999 G500 Transmission rebuild
AlanMcR - 11/29/2015 10:59 PM
The first thing I would do is to make sure the fat +12 to the starter is tight. Might want to clean and re-install it. Failing that, drop the fuse box and find the two large red wires (~5mm copper). These supply most of the +12 to the rest if the circuitry. Check that they are tight, have 12V, and that the 12V stays when you try to crank.
The loose large red wire (lower green arrow) put me at the side of the road in Nebraska.
It was a faulty crimp to the end O-stud, not a loose hold down nut. Somebody had messed with it after it left the factory.
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Aircruiser
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2011
Location: Atlanta GA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500, 1986 300GD, 2017 Porsche Cayenne Hybrid
Posts: 364
| Re: Transmission rebuild
In addition to the ground cables in the left rear there is a transmission ground cable, if I recall correctly, located near the round electrical connection to the right frame rail. This would have been disturbed when the transmission was removed and replaced. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Okay, thanks. I will run through these items this evening. |
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J.R.
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
| RE: 1999 G500 Transmission rebuild
Roly - 11/30/2015 3:28 AM
Do you know that the battery earth strap is a two part arrangement. There is the one in the battery compartment (which you replaced) going to the body and then a second external strap going from the same body connector bolt to the chassis. This second strap is concealed behind the rear bumper. Ensure that the connection between the two straps is clean as you will have disturbed it when you replaced the battery earth cable.
Since you unscrewed the large bolt in the rear for the ground strap, do make sure that the nut on the end of that bolt is secure as it serves a purpose for the other ground strap.
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Transmission rebuild
I hope you find an easy solution to the no start, like a ground strap or a bad connection.
As far as swapping the shifter control unit, I've read somewhere that MB uses a security coding for activation, some theft prevention feature.
I could be wrong as I do not recall what year this was adopted?
Speedy recovery! |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| RE: 1999 G500 Transmission rebuild
J.R. - 11/30/2015 11:25 AM
Roly - 11/30/2015 3:28 AM
Do you know that the battery earth strap is a two part arrangement. There is the one in the battery compartment (which you replaced) going to the body and then a second external strap going from the same body connector bolt to the chassis. This second strap is concealed behind the rear bumper. Ensure that the connection between the two straps is clean as you will have disturbed it when you replaced the battery earth cable.
Since you unscrewed the large bolt in the rear for the ground strap, do make sure that the nut on the end of that bolt is secure as it serves a purpose for the other ground strap.
I'm really feeling the love here. The no start problem is very temporally related to my changing the ground strap as the last event.
I will check it first thing this evening.
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. |
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Gilamonster
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2013
Location: New Mexico
Vehicle(s): G #1 (mix of a 460, 461 & 463), #2 is a 2000 G500
Posts: 151
| RE: Transmission rebuild
Interesting problem. I ran this by Marc at OCD and his first thoughts are along with the others - rear ground strap and transmission bell housing ground strap.
Keep us posted.
William |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
It looks like Roly is owed a beer. Heck, beers all around!
The nut fell off the lower ground strap underneath the body when I changed the ground strap at the battery. So the connection was minimal to nonexistant. I don't think I would have ever found that without the help of the P3 forum.
Now that I'm back in action, I will take care of that trans plug leak ASAP.
Cheers
Eric
Edited by otiswesty 12/1/2015 12:50 AM
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Congratulations........Yahooo! We all love the easy fix!!!!
Thank you for sharing your findings.
Many carefree happy miles.
NHD |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| RE: Transmission rebuild
The G would not shift out of 1st as I tried to drive it to work this morning. It seems like a typical symptom for the ATF on the electrical connector at the trans.
Common 722.6 issue on Benzworld E and S class forums
Also the 3 month history of the no start in "P" looks to be a maladjustment of the shift lever from the trans at the shifter arm.
see Dutch's pdf
I'll get these sorted soon and report back with results.
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Adjusting shift rod.pdf (21KB - 13 downloads)
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Aircruiser
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2011
Location: Atlanta GA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500, 1986 300GD, 2017 Porsche Cayenne Hybrid
Posts: 364
| RE: Transmission rebuild
otiswesty - 12/1/2015 11:03 PM
The G would not shift out of 1st as I tried to drive it to work this morning. It seems like a typical symptom for the ATF on the electrical connector at the trans.
Common 722.6 issue on Benzworld E and S class forums.
I had a similar problem with holding first gear. It first appeared once every blue moon, then more and more often, especially when cold. If put in neutral for a few seconds then back in gear it behaved normally for a while. STAR diagnostic read a intermittent rpm fault. The conductor plate and plug were changed last month with excellent results. |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Wouldn't a new conductor plate come with a reman transmission?
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Any feed back to end this post otiswesty. I've been reading and waiting...
Do diligence request? |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
I had the G at the dealer for about 3 weeks. Waiting on parts from Germany mostly. A sad reminder of the frustrations I encountered with 460 G-class ownership.
The dealer felt that there was likely a problem with one of the solenoids on the conductor plate in the trans. They got in a new one from Germany, pulled the trans pan, filter and conductor plate. All of the solenoids tested okay, so that turned out to be a false alarm. The ignition switch was sticking in position 3, so that was replaced with a new part from Germany as a possible cause. I had recently replaced the shifter assembly with a new unit from the dealer, they found this to be faulty by diagnostics, and replaced it again under warranty. Also did further work cleaning grounds. Trans plug was replaced under warranty as well.
O2 sensors were also replaced due to CEL fault.
I got the car back last week. Everything seemed okay....
I still have a problem with the vehicle occasionally stalling when shifting from P to R/D , cold engine. Also had the vehicle stall driving but at idle yesterday. I have taken the G back in and am waiting for further info.
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Transmission rebuild
otiswesty - 12/28/2015 3:05 PM
I still have a problem with the vehicle occasionally stalling when shifting from P to R/D , cold engine. Also had the vehicle stall driving but at idle yesterday. I have taken the G back in and am waiting for further info.
Bummer. Is it throwing any codes? |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
There was a code for the K40, which I had changed out for a used unit, we'll see if this returns. A code for the transmission solenoid, one for the O2 sensor, maybe others. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Transmission rebuild
otiswesty - 12/28/2015 3:29 PM
There was a code for the K40, which I had changed out for a used unit, we'll see if this returns. A code for the transmission solenoid, one for the O2 sensor, maybe others.
Present this last time you turned it in to the dealer? |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: Transmission rebuild
otiswesty - 12/28/2015 12:05 PM ...I still have a problem with the vehicle occasionally stalling when shifting from P to R/D, cold engine. Also had the vehicle stall driving but at idle yesterday. I have taken the G back in and am waiting for further info. This has an ECU controlled throttle, right? If it is just a little slow to open with the extra load of going into drive then the engine will stall. Perhaps it is gummed up and sticky when cold. Can't hurt to check it or swap it with a known good one.
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ILIAN
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: Boston MA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500 1999 CL500
Posts: 181
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Maybe it's time to clean the throttle body and the crankcase ventilation holes. The holes are very small and they clog up over time. The throttle body builds up gunk in the small openings that allow the airflow in the closed position when idle. Also a malfunctioning EGR or not enough flow can cause the engine to stall at idle. My engine has about 800 RPM when in P and N and drops to about 600 or a bit less when in D and R. |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Thank you for the update
Man, you deserve a break here!
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
These issues have all occurred since the trans went out. The dealer's thought on this latest, is that it may be related to high pressures in the trans cooler circuit, possibly from tranny gear metallic chips and debris that are impacted in the air/oil trans cooler. They are going to pull and test it with bidirectional power flushes. |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Transmission rebuild
That theory isn't very comforting otiswesty!
If they find debris in the cooler circuit, then some of this debris may have reentered the transmission since the swap.
Fingers crossed they do not find anything.... And even if they don't, just the idea warrants multiple flushes and filter changes to make sure?
Yikes, good luck with this.. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: Transmission rebuild
NHDave - 1/2/2016 7:06 AM
That theory isn't very comforting otiswesty!
If they find debris in the cooler circuit, then some of this debris may have reentered the transmission since the swap.
Fingers crossed they do not find anything.... And even if they don't, just the idea warrants multiple flushes and filter changes to make sure?
Yikes, good luck with this..
Hopefully, the return line from the cooler re-enters the tranny on the dirty side of the filter. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
I am not sure of the exact circulatory set up for the trans and cooler circuits. The trans fluid circulates through the side of the radiator for a water-oil cooler as well as the air-oil cooler under the skid plate. The system was flushed thoroughly at the time of the R&R.
These guys know what they are doing and I have confidence in them. The 5 speed 722.6 is a common trans in the Mercedes line up. It will get sorted, hopefully sooner than later. I will follow up with the final diagnostic report.
I have been driving our old 1996 Montero with a set of new General Grabbers to the mountain. 220K miles on it, going strong. No lockers except for the center diff, but it has been reliable if not a little underpowered. I miss all 300 horses of the G500 and the sweet looking ride that the G is. This generation Montero is a good value for the $800-$2500 they are selling for used, we bought ours new as a wife kid shuttle. It is now the teenage kids' indestructible beater rig.
Edited by otiswesty 1/2/2016 1:39 PM
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Transmission rebuild
I'm sure you have faith in these guy's and you should. Who else out there seems to know this stuff better than the dealer.. Thank god for these guy's, they'll see this thru for you, unlike the dealer!
Yes, something to be said about the longevity of Japanese engines and the simplicity of their mechanics behind the drive train, bulletproof for some reason.
What an expensive nerve racking shit fest for you!
My fingers are crossed for the best out come Otis!
Keep us all informed with the prognosis? |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| RE: Transmission rebuild
I brought the G500 home again today, the cooler circuits tested okay and the problem was not improved with cooler bypass. The dealer has been working with Mark at Sun Valley Transmissions to find a solution. I had been windering if I had made a mistake not taking the MB remanufactired 722.630, but it seems to be independent of the trans itself. I think I am still below what the cost would have been for the dealer sourced trans plus torque convertor. The overall costs for the trans repair are significant, but overall pretty reasonable given how little it has cost to own this vehicle.
One of the tests involved swapping out the trans control under the hood with a sedan model. I asked if it was W210, which they nodded yes to. They cleared the current settings and were going to do a transmission adaptation over the weekend.
I offed to do the adaptation myself. It is WIS document AD27.19-P-3000-04A
It involves a series of 4 manual upshifts of each 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-5 at max engine speed 1800 RPM. It also specifies torque ranges for the procedure, but they are wide enough that it should be no prob.
Also included are 3 downshifts sequences at no specified torque 5-4, and 4-3
I will be doing it this weekend and bringing it back in for a fault check on Monday. Luckily there are some nice roads for it out by the pick and pull where I will be looking for a W210 trans control unit, K40, and other bits if avail.
The throttle body fouling and EGR valve failure were discused with them as well and they felt these would result in the symptoms occuring in a warmed up engine as well, so less likely, but still have been considered. |
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ILIAN
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: Boston MA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500 1999 CL500
Posts: 181
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Are you saying you have the air transmission cooler relocated to the skid plate? Not behind the front bumper? |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Yes, I moved the oil/air TC cooler from behind the bumper to above the skid plate in the G55 position in order to fit a tow pin bumper years ago. It is functioning well with normal back pressure. |
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ILIAN
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: Boston MA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500 1999 CL500
Posts: 181
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Maybe you overheated the transmission and caused the failure in the first place. The cooler relocated doesn't get much air. I know it's supposed to be a factory setup but I don't like it. A few others have expressed consern here in the forums in the past. I figured out a way to mount the cooler close to the original position in the front but supported on the body of the car instead of the bumper or frame. Now I'm building a winch bumper which will allow full airflow to that cooler just like before. I will post detailes about it someday in a new thread. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
That is very possible. I am done towing 7000# loads, as we have sold the farm.
The G55 cooler above the skid plate is an additional secondary air/oil cooler for the AMG trucks, they still have the one behind the bumper. |
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Vehicross99
Veteran
Date registered: May 2009
Location: So Texas/SW Colorado
Vehicle(s): 2006 G500
Posts: 161
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Hi ILIAN
Would you have any pictures/drawings of your cooler location?
I am just installing a tow pin bumper and have concerns about the new location.
Hey Otis,
I hope you get everything cleared up soon.
My 2nd vehicle is a 1999 Montero, 160k miles and still going strong. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
I pulled the truck out of the dealer at the advice of Mark at Sun Valley. I took it to an indy shop, they cleaned the throttle body and everything is working as it should now. The thought was that the timing was coincidental and in retrospect it didn't begin immediately after the trans rebuild.
I am glad I did not authorize pulling the trans and replacing the torque convertor!
Back in action. |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Very good news otiswesty!
Best of luck from here on in.
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ILIAN
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: Boston MA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500 1999 CL500
Posts: 181
| Re: Transmission rebuild
I'm glad it's solved with an easy cleaning. Dealers seem to think A and B service is all a car needs and they are usually not interested in the easy fixes. |
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ILIAN
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: Boston MA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500 1999 CL500
Posts: 181
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Here is what I did with the transmission cooler. I hope it works with the tow pin bumper.
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ILIAN
Veteran
Date registered: Sep 2014
Location: Boston MA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500 1999 CL500
Posts: 181
| Re: Transmission rebuild
The brackets that hold it to the bumper need to be cut down and swapped from side to side. Take your time with it, it won't be easy to find the right position and to bolt things up, I hope you have small fingers. I'm going to mount it about an inch lower than what it is now and then it's going to sit about 1/2 inch above the front edge of the skid plate. I'm still making cardboard templates for the front winch bumper. I'm going to mount a Superwinch Talon 12.5isr in there and I'm trying to make it so the winch can come out in 5 min and get the best aproach angle and so that the winch solenoid doesn't cover the star on the grille. Oh and have an OEM brush guard that's reinforced and quick to remove when needed. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Update on this
While down in New Mexico in October, very low AM temps. I had recurrent symptoms of stalling with putting the trans in gear when cold, less that 45 degF. I consulted with Marc at Sun Valley and he offered warranty replacement of the torque convertor.
We were in LA before Christmas and I had him do this. An easy half day job for his shop including R&R of the gear box. Unfortunately needed to rush home the next day due to flooding of my basement in Portland and developed some new drive line vibes on the way home. It drove perfect when I picked it up.
Got some fresh tires the next day thinking it was the old BFGs, and we noticed some clicking that sounds like a CV joint. There was a bolt missing from the transfer case skid plate. I replaced that and clicking still there. Vibes did not improve with the new tires.
Right now I am thinking it is most likely the intermediate shaft, but since the trans was just out I cannot rule that out. I am waiting for shop time at an indy that would be reasonable enough to cover warranty work on the trans should that turn out to be the issue. Very disappointing that this saga is ongoing, apologies for the double post with the other recent thread. I have not contacted Sun Valley Transmission yet as I do not know if the trans is involved.
Edited by otiswesty 1/2/2017 12:56 PM
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
By the way, very cold here with temp in the teens and symptoms of torque convertor lock up are resolved. |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| RE: Transmission rebuild
Put your TC in low. Drive it through the RPM range. If you notice the vibrations at completely different points or speed, then you found the problem. |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
In low range, it begins as soon as the car is moving forward. With rythmic clicking noise that increases in frequency relative to speed until it is humming. Could this be the center shaft? |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| Re: Transmission rebuild
otiswesty - 1/3/2017 12:48 AM In low range, it begins as soon as the car is moving forward. With rythmic clicking noise that increases in frequency relative to speed until it is humming. Could this be the center shaft? I think you found your issue... |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| Re: Transmission rebuild
Okay, drive shaft ordered and on the way... |
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imjustdave
Regular
Date registered: Feb 2012
Location: Bonney Lake Washington USA
Vehicle(s): 2004 G500, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2006 Ram 3500.
Posts: 77
| Re: Transmission rebuild
WOW you have been having the worst luck, glad you are getting things sorted out though. I did have one question on the intermediate shaft. IS the shop positive they put it back in the same position? AS I understand it its clocking has to be perfect. IF this was a day and night change I would be looking at that. |
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NHDave
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Dec 2013
Location: Seacoast NH.
Vehicle(s): 2004 AMG
Posts: 465
| Re: Transmission rebuild
The intermediate shaft doesn't need to be clocked any longer as it consist of a CV joint on each end, with no slip joint like earlier shafts.
Chances are otiswesty, when the shaft ends where compressed for removal, it displaced the old waxy grease, leaving the balls high and dry.
A new shaft is easiest but if you had the time, a rebuild with new grease would've saved you some money.
Best of luck |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3006
| RE: Transmission rebuild
Well I hope I am putting this thread to rest finally. We got the new drive shaft in, noticed the engine mounts were separated, so those got replaced as well.
The car drives smooth and straight now, turns out the transmission is fine and maybe the cardan shaft just didn't like going out and in again. Ready for a haul down to Baja or maybe the Bay area for a new roof.
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camptop.jpg (210KB - 1 downloads)
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| RE: Transmission rebuild
otiswesty - 1/21/2017 1:29 AM
Well I hope I am putting this thread to rest finally. We got the new drive shaft in, noticed the engine mounts were separated, so those got replaced as well.
Good news.
You mean the engine rubbers were ruptured?
Good looking G btw.
gr. Bram |
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