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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| clicking solinoid no cranking
Hi guys
trivial pursuit at its best I guess.
searched forums here and about to no avail.
just installed
brand new solinoid on a starter that was tested at a respected rebuild shop.
ground strap solid to starter , frame, and battery terminal.
Battery terminals and connections wire wheeled and spotless.
starter clicks when key turned to start.
try a couple more times then finally engage and start.
found wire connection under dash had melted plastic housing, sanded terminal reinstalled. Was definitely start wire because no crank when disconnected.
I'm loosing it on this beast. stuck on the road hasn't happened yet but the pucker factor while out and about is no fun.
I think if I'm getting the clicking at solinoid it should turn starter.
kind of suspecting the key switch might need cleaning,didn't find any info on that.
saw were some have ran starter button to glove box, seems like admitting defeat to me.
will check voltage at solinoid next when trying to start. Also positive cable on starter
like I said though if it's clicking you would think it would try to start.
Thanks again
sean |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
A couple of suggestions:
1. Fault is on control circuit. To eliminate the fault put a temp manual pushbutton switch onto it.
2. Is the problem exhaust / heat related. Insulate starter.
3. Problem on heavy current side. Faulty solenoid (even newones). Brushes gone, poor earth on motor near oil filter, poor contact somewhere.
4. Sticky bendix or burred teeth not allowing solenoid full stroke to energise main windings.
I have just had the very same thing on my starter. "rebuilt by reputable.. etc etc." they re-did it twice.
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
Sounds like a Weak Battery. Is it the correct size? Need one with at least 730-750 CCA (Cold Cranking Amps).
Additionally take the ignition switch out of the equation. Try using a remote starter. Turn the key let it glow then use the remote stater. Here is one: http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/W80586/10002/-1...
If you never have used one here is a basic YouTube.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PWG6Il_ZJI
If you can reach it safely, you can use a a large flat blade screwdriver to jump the terminals. This will be the same as the remote starter
Mark
Edited by Inkblotz 3/27/2017 8:22 AM
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
Not a bad idea to use a remote starter (or a simple jumper) and put a voltmeter on the battery to see if voltage drops heavily when starter is engaged.
Isn't the starter wire coming from your ignition key connected on that terminal block on the inner fender? That makes a nice jumper location.
See for pics and info also: http://pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=12950&posts=... block&highlightmode=1#M134016
If voltage drops heavily, you'd indeed get the clicking sound, but not enough power to rotate the starter.
gr. bram
Edited by bram_r 3/27/2017 2:26 PM
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Aircruiser
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2011
Location: Atlanta GA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500, 1986 300GD, 2017 Porsche Cayenne Hybrid
Posts: 364
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
Same story with mine. The remote starter switch works 100% and the key to start is a 50%. It does seem voltage related, when my CTEK charger is connected or the battery has been freshly reconditioned the key is more reliable.
I have a upsized alternator being shipped currently, which will not solve this problem, but will require me to upgrade wiring. Upgrading the positives between the alternator, battery, starter and the ground wires. If I find a solution, I'll report back. All of the halfhearted start attempts have likely messed up my starter bendix. |
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| RE: clicking solinoid no cranking
Hello guys
well after reading all the input from you guys, my instincts are to check connections at every point,someone mentioned the connection
block on the fender to use as a remote start connection point.
well I removed all the wires frome one block and none of the connections looked clean, more like a lite white coating on each including the base of block .
wire wheeled each wire connector and lightly greased.
Reconnected wires and can't get it to just click, oh darn, not really, happy happy joy joy.
like I said it's been intermittent so my joy may be short lived but will keep you informed
thankful for your wealth of experience and will to share. It is most appreciated.
Sean |
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Aircruiser
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2011
Location: Atlanta GA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500, 1986 300GD, 2017 Porsche Cayenne Hybrid
Posts: 364
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
My rewire project is complete. My connection block had a few suspect crimps but mainly the ground daisy chained from the battery to the starter was way past it. New looms in place, so far mine is 100% with the key.
BTW that top starter bolt is a complete pita, my alternator bolt isn't much fun either. |
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
Short lived happiness.
Still clicking, seems to be more prevelant when hot.
after 3 or 4 try it finally turns over.
scratches head. I hate being under informed |
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
sean - 3/31/2017 10:43 PM
Short lived happiness.
Still clicking, seems to be more prevelant when hot.
after 3 or 4 try it finally turns over.
scratches head. I hate being under informed
Did you check battery voltage during cranking?
Otherwise you need to have your starter rebuild or replaced. Any chance you can replace it with another unit for testing?
gr. Bram |
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
Hi Bram
just had local texas alternator shop test starter and put a new solinoid on it.said starter looked brand new.
I don't suspect battery because it will spin the motor with gusto and for a good long time.
thanks for your help. Could the key switch be at fault.
I'm of the idea that if it's clicking it's engaging the starter gear and the starter motor isn't getting juice or enough juice.
will check positive supply to starter next
sean |
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
Just verified good positive connection at starter.
still clicking no start.
added clue, jumped the starter at the block connection on fender.
starter worked perfectly every time.
key switch ? Any body messed with that? Blade connector under dash had a slightly melted
plastic insulator housing coming from key assembly shined up connection and reinstalled
sean |
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
In the link I posted earlier can also be read that if you want a quick and cheap solution, so can bypass the key starter with a push button switch somewhere on your dash.
Otherwise I'm afraid you'd have go troubleshooting your key switch.
Some info how to remove the key switch connector and disassemble the key switch also on that link |
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
Thank you
Push button option
Is looking better and better.
I will tuck in my pride and
Put a button in.
Sean |
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
sean - 4/1/2017 2:14 AM
Thank you
Push button option
Is looking better and better.
I will tuck in my pride and
Put a button in.
Sean
You can install something for a temporarily solution and fix the key lock when the time comes.
I didn't like the push button either, but it worked.
Fixed it later.
gr. Bram
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Re: clicking solinoid no cranking
Simple rule of trouble shooting. Never "explain" yourself into why "...it can't be the...". Get data and real experience so you know what's going on for sure.
1- Connect a volt meter at the battery and leave it there so you can watch it with every start. This way you'll have data. For instance, big voltage drop with still only click will rule out the primary side and indicate a problem with the starter brushes, commutator, armature, etc. Small voltage drop with click = primary side is energizing coil (or losing juice to some other ground path) but solenoid isn't able to energize windings. No voltage drop with click = insufficient current through windings to move solenoid.
This is just one leg of a big tree of starter troubleshooting. Any and all can and have happened somewhere along the way of the 350k+ miles I've driven the 460s. There aren't any short cuts or "...it's always the...." answers.
Most frequent issues I've had:
1- Oil gumming up the piston in the solenoid preventing it from slapping the contacts hard enough to get a good contact. (Just because the starter has been recently out of your possession and looks good on the outside is zero indication of what's going on inside the solenoid)
2- Defective (broken) contacts inside the solenoid
3- Bad connections in the battery ground tree including the wire itself becoming too corroded
4- Bad electrical connections in the primary side circuit
5- Various battery issues
I've never personally had issues with an ignition switch but it's there, so it's possible.
Back to the beginning - the volt meter, and even better a clamp-on ammeter, is your friend in knowing exactly what's going on and not just guessing.
Good luck!
Dave G. |
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| RE: clicking solinoid no cranking
Hi guy's
got ambitious today on my clicking starter problem. I had recently replaced the wire from the terminal block on the fender to the starter solenoid went with the number 10 wire and a big copper connector at both ends for some reason I believe it was frying the butt connector right at the solenoid connection so beefed it up. Problem still persisted turn key, click no start,about 4 of these and then finally crank and start. Took key switch apart some contacts for start and power not corroded but fine sanded while I was there.
no change same frustrating click for several times then start. Not a good look at the convienance store.
finally found start wire coming from key switch pulled existing wire to fender block connection replaced it and now we are starting every time.
hooray happy day
lived w this for 3 months not fun.
hope this helps someone
sean
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