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islandbound
Member
Date registered: Jun 2015
Location: PNW, USA
Vehicle(s): landcrusier (RIP), e320 cdi, w113 280 SL, W460
Posts: 18
| W460 240GD story and questions
Buckle up I searched for many of these questions but didn't find what i thought were clear answers.
I went to my Mom's house last week to start going through my dads things after he recently passed away. I don't want to keep renting a car everytime if I can help it so I thought I would try and start the G he bought years ago. It has not been started in at least 8 maybe 10 years. Description, 1980 240GD ? cab, 46K KM, 4spd, parked on blocks under covers in a car port in the high desert of Arizona.
Anyway in preparation for attempting to starting I pulled the glow plugs and squirted some penetrating oil deep into the holes, I let it sit about 24hr and turned over a couple times and repeated. The next day when I was installing the glow plugs one of the nuts wouldn't come loose without the "shaft" spinning. The connector had broken off when I removed it and I thought it would be easy to remove the nut and replace the connector later (wrong). Next, I replaced the battery with a new H8 Battery and checked for lights :), I had power. However, one thing I didn't consider was the fuel tank of fuel as the fuel gauge showed full. I had no cans to siphon the old fuel and no place to "dump it". So I drained the fuel in one of the filters and thought what the heck, I'll see if she will start. Before trying to fire the engine I noticed I had no glow plug light? I don't know if it is because now one of the 4 GP isn't hooked up? or the relay or light might be bad? Anyway, because this G is in the desert I felt almost ok about the old fuel. I figured that there was some type of fuel treatment in the full tank and the oil has been changed prior to being put on blocks. If it didn't run that was always something I could do.
crank, crank, crank that new battery turned the little 240 over. After acouple three or four of 30sec cycles of the starter a spudder of life. I didn't want her to really fire yet, I repeated this a couple of time until I figure I might as well let her try. She stumbled for a few seconds and I shut her off, repeated this a couple of times. Finally I thought let's see if she will run. After letting her start, shake, rattle and roll the little 240 settled into a nice idle. With an exception of a rattlely or buzzy accelerator assembly. I let her warm up and shut her down, repeated a couple of times.
So next steps or direction needed, With my process should I have done anything different?
I want to replace the rubber/plastic fuel lines including the injector return lines.
Should I worry about the water pump?
Is the throttle linkage noise a common issue (it buzzes / rattles very loud with no pressure thinking ther might be some bushings or something as it also a low peddle and hard to depress ( haven't really looked into ). I put a spring and the tension pretty much silenced it.
At first the transfer case wouldn't shift after the engine ran it seamed fine, anything to be concerned with? Is the Transfer case locked in low?
Lockers, how do the levers work and when? Mine don't move? I know they pull up but don't know if they can be engaged in any transmission/transfer case position? I know not to engage lockers on the pavement.
Drivers seat, are there bushings where it hinges fwd? mine have a lot of slop and wiggle.
Glow plugs-mine are the larger diameter with the pencil tip, I believe
this is the correct GP? http://www.vehiclepartsdatabase.com/vehicles/allclassiccars/puch/gm... I hate throwing good money at something that isn't a problem. But should I just replace the 4 GP's and be done with it?
The shut down isn't sudden there is some rattle is this typical, or perhaps a vacuum issue or sticky shut down valve? ( I guess I can check with a manual shut down when I am back down in a few weeks).
Do LED bulbs create any issues?
Softtop I quickly looked and didn't try and figure out the operation, is there a link to a manual or directions.
One of my biggest question, best place to buy parts. I am hopeful that I won't need much other than GP, fuel lines, something to fix the lockers, perhaps a primer pump as I had a leak from that area on inital start up. The gasket or where ever the leak originated seemed to have "swelled" because when I checked again the next day I had the engine running for about 15 mins and no fuel was showing.
I also need to change the tires as from what read a 240gd won't turn 265/75's well, how about 235/85's? Eventually an engine / trans swap isn't off the table but the 240 sure ran well after starting and with 46K kilometers I am guessing it has a lot of life left. The oil will be changed again after I get a few hours on it. I am guessing this is a pretty early w460 as the dipstick is unlike any other I couple find pics of it's in front of the engine?
After these items I need to get to the DMV as the G isn't in my name although the title was signed over prior to his passing. Eventually I need to get this from AZ to WA, I really think I am going to tow it on a trailer. But the idea of driving it locally in AZ for a few hundred miles over the next 6-9 months and then road triping it sounds interesting. Then the otherside of the brain kicks in with a that is just stupid. I guess we can wait and see what time brings.
One thing that is off is the VIN indicates this as a gas engine, I can't imagine the swap was made so I am guessing there is a transcription error plus the VIN isn't 17 characters. This is a euro import so are VIN different?
WOW I did ask a lot of questions I hope I haven't worn out my welcome already. |
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islandbound
Member
Date registered: Jun 2015
Location: PNW, USA
Vehicle(s): landcrusier (RIP), e320 cdi, w113 280 SL, W460
Posts: 18
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
Here are a couple/three videos, the first is right after I started her so maybe after 30 sec to a 1min of idling with me in the cab. Second is about 5 min later and the later is after I backed out and hosed 10 years of dust and spider webs off. Thinking back it had been idling more like 1/2hr vs 10 min before I moved it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnNbkr6jBKI
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=w460+after+5...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4lIKd6_Ees |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
Yes, rather a lot of questions! Welcome here anyway and perhaps I can share some quick opinions:
1. Your startup caution was impressive.
2. I would drive it for a few miles to warm it up and then change all the fluids. There is enough info here about those processes.
3. The diff locks probably will be gummed up, leave perhaps until last.
4. The std tyre size for a 460 is 205 R16. If you have 15" then the comparable height is important. However we would need to know the info (ratios) off the axle ID on the diff, and if the gearbox is 4 or 5 speed to be able to comment better.
5. I suspect your VIN is correct indicating a petrol engine, as that 240 as far as I can see may be a transplant as it has the sedan air filter on it and the throttle appears cable operated opposed to rods and levers on the G. If so I would guess it may have had a 230 carburettor engine in it. But this is quite wild speculation, which you can alleviate by posting the VIN for someone to decode for you.
Condolences re your father, but he has left you a very desirable G. |
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islandbound
Member
Date registered: Jun 2015
Location: PNW, USA
Vehicle(s): landcrusier (RIP), e320 cdi, w113 280 SL, W460
Posts: 18
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
Thank you Andrew,
1, thank you
2, Full base line is in my expections, I suspect it was done before being put away as the oil was clear, coolant appears new, the tank was full. Perhaps, brake, clutch, gear and diffs not replaced. However, I have synth 75-90w if that is acceptable?
3, I'll do some searching on the systems, my TLC has elockers so not much of a worry on gumming up (as long as they get the used on occasion). I agree this is not a pressing issue but I would like to resolve it. I'll assume it requires removal of some valves and a flushing of fluids. Is there a locker system diagram somewhere? Operationally, can they be engaged in any position of the transfer case or transmission?
4, The wheels are a 16" and are actually "Brabus" alloy wheels and in excellent condition, so at some point I think I will put them on ebay or something. My guess is they are for a sedan or something of the sort and have the wrong offset.
Are the axle ratios tagged on the diff's?
5, I will have to validate the VIN as the photocopy I have only shows 13 characters, which when entered into a VIN decoder tells me to enter a valid VIN. Interesting thought because some of the fitting in the engine compartment look different than what I had seen in pictures.
Thanks, I have a few vehicles to go through including a excellent condition 300SDL < 100k miles that I can't locate the keys, and a 59 VW Ghia with approx 52K miles last registered in 1994 in when they lived in California and retains black plates. Although I believe the engine needs to come out of the Ghia, I thought he mentioned that a few years back. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
islandbound - 7/19/2017 11:24 AM
5, I will have to validate the VIN as the photocopy I have only shows 13 characters, which when entered into a VIN decoder tells me to enter a valid VIN. Interesting thought because some of the fitting in the engine compartment look different than what I had seen in pictures.
The European VIN will be of the form: WDB460xxx17xxxxxx. The "WDB" will probably not be present on the vehicle's VIN. This is stamped into the outside of the frame just behind the front axle, and there will be a small metal plate with the number embossed on it attached to the front of the inside fresh air plenum in the engine compartment. |
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Bobmog
Member
Date registered: Oct 2006
Location: northern Colorado/Southern Wyoming
Vehicle(s): 280GE&G320
Posts: 36
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
Looks like an awesome truck in great shape! Enjoy! |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
I would stick with the dyno oils on an older machine, just because weird leaks can happen with old seals and synthetics. The transfer case takes a GL4 grade oil in whatever climate - viscosity is recommended and the diffs a GL5 viscosity ditto. I use 90.
If the lockers work, keep em working by using them regularly but only on a yielding / loose surface to avoid damaging stuff. Front axles on these vehicles are notorious for getting damage by different wheel speeds on hard surfaces, excess turning with the front locker on etc.
Yes you can use the lockers anytime, and in any transfer position. Personally I only ever use my front in low range (pos GA), in a straight line and to get out of trouble. Its senseless and possibly deadly locking the front in two wheel drive (pos S)
The diff ratios should be on a tag near the pumpkin and will show something like i= 44/9 for example.
I would keep the wheels personally, the offset looks ok, they are quite conservative! and 16" alloys are not that common as the G has a fairly uncommon bolt hole PCD.
There is a neat party trick you can try with this car , for fun, which we all like showing to newbies: At slow speeds you can change from low to high and back again without stopping. So put it in low range ie GA and reverse and pull away, and then without stopping put in the clutch and flip the transfer case into high ie SA. Backwards or forwards it is good Sunday afternoon entertainment.
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islandbound
Member
Date registered: Jun 2015
Location: PNW, USA
Vehicle(s): landcrusier (RIP), e320 cdi, w113 280 SL, W460
Posts: 18
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
Thanks for the pointers, the lockers will need a go through as the levels don't move. At this point I a guessing it will be months that I can get a look. Next set will be registration and get road (town ready). My parents lived in Sedona AZ which is a small town and should anything go wrong I wouldn't have much tow.
I still need to address the Glow plug issue, can I mix the glow plugs with the loop and pencil end? How about throttle linkage, is there a diagram of how it cam out of the factory? I think once these issues are addressed I start on our local street and then slowly extend my range. I don't think resolving these will be difficult it's just time, distance from the vehicle and getting parts when needed. |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
Immobile diff lock levers sounds like the norm for one that has stood for a while, but fortunately they will not prevent your getting it home.
Use the engine number and get the correct glow plugs. They are not expensive, and the EPC will give the latest suitable option for it.
If the throttle linkage that you have works, why dont you leave it like it is?
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islandbound
Member
Date registered: Jun 2015
Location: PNW, USA
Vehicle(s): landcrusier (RIP), e320 cdi, w113 280 SL, W460
Posts: 18
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
I can't get the engine number until my next trip down to Arizona, my home is about 1,400 miles away and I will only be there a little less than a week. So the glow plugs to get it to start normally, the linkage just feels wrong or tight, (I would hate to have it bind at the wrong time).
If I need the engine number then so be it and I can at least get them ordered for a follow up in about 6 weeks...
Good to hear that the sticking lockers in not unusual.
Edited by islandbound 7/20/2017 7:57 PM
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Titus Pullo
Elite Veteran
Date registered: May 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Vehicle(s): '90 Wolf 240GD, '06 G270 CDI.
Posts: 1010
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
It looks like a car engine to me. Especially the air filter - the G has completely different air filter set up. |
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Luky
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia, EU
Vehicle(s): 300GE LWB auto, E320CDI 4M, VW Polo Classic 1.6
Posts: 1062
| RE: W460 240GD story and questions
Gs had a 14 digit VIN without WDB until about 1983. There should be something like this stamped on the frame behind the right front wheel. If the 4th number is 2 it was originaly a petrol if it is 3 it was a diesel.
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islandbound
Member
Date registered: Jun 2015
Location: PNW, USA
Vehicle(s): landcrusier (RIP), e320 cdi, w113 280 SL, W460
Posts: 18
| RE: W460 240GD story and questions
Thank you Luky I will take a look when I return in 2 weeks. I was curious where the VIN was stamped. |
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RSF.Gunney
Regular
Date registered: Nov 2016
Location: Qatar
Vehicle(s): W460 - 280ge
Posts: 63
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
Wow, she looks like she is in amazing condition for 10 years on blocks. Welcome to the G-Community.
One of the things you asked about was parts.
1. www.Eurotruck-importers.com are great (but just make sure you work out what engine you actually have)
2. www.fourbyfourclub.com have tonnes of G parts.
3. www.4x4abc.com will get you the manual for your car and a whole load of useful information.
4. www.g-wagenaccessories.com you probably won't need this but hey, its worth a look.
Some others I have found:
http://g-classics.com
https://traversparts.com/catalog/mercedes-benz/w460-g-class/
https://clubgwagen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5923
http://www.mbgtc.de/Baumuster/PKW-Modell/G-Klasse/?force_sid=c07ord...
http://www.g-manufaktur.de/shop/index.php?cPath=2_27_91&page=2
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/g-ologe
Edited by RSF.Gunney 7/30/2017 9:28 AM
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RSF.Gunney
Regular
Date registered: Nov 2016
Location: Qatar
Vehicle(s): W460 - 280ge
Posts: 63
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
Don't forget to give your front knuckles a once over and make sure they have a nice clean coating of Greece getting through the swipe seals. |
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bram_r
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
| RE: W460 240GD story and questions
Looks like a great looking G, these old cabrio's are getting a real classic car status last few years (and real expensive as well).
Regarding your throttle linkage.
The 240GD should have got some mechanical linkages coming from your accelerator pedal.
It should have got a cable as well for the cold weather start up idle acceleration knob from your dashboard (rotating knob).
See picture below from another 240GD engine where you see the linkage (on the firewall) and the cable operated idle accelerator. Also the correct G air cleaner is visible:
Let us know if you want to install the mechanical linkage system on your G, I can ask around with some G traders if they have a set from a parts G.
And as your engine looks like on coming from a sedan, it may be worthwhile to check what kind of sump it has.
Sedan sumps may not clear the G front diff housing on full suspension compression. You don't want that to happen when you take it out on the Sedona trails.
gr. Bram
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islandbound
Member
Date registered: Jun 2015
Location: PNW, USA
Vehicle(s): landcrusier (RIP), e320 cdi, w113 280 SL, W460
Posts: 18
| Re: W460 240GD story and questions
Thanks for the replies, I will be heading to Sedona later this week for my father memorial. I don't know if I will have a chance to spend much time on the G other than getting some pics, VIN, maybe mess with the Glow plugs. I'll post pics of the sump etc.
The linkage is a combo of Mechanical and switches to a cable, and there is a cable for a quick idle (doesn't seam to work).
Thanks for links, I really got busy and this is a little on the back burner. we picked up a new car for the wife (rx450h) so now the w211 e320cdi needs a home (or maybe just the OM648 does).
The G will be a longer term figure out what becomes of her. I think she will stay in Sedona for the next year to two, get straightened out. |
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islandbound
Member
Date registered: Jun 2015
Location: PNW, USA
Vehicle(s): landcrusier (RIP), e320 cdi, w113 280 SL, W460
Posts: 18
| RE: W460 240GD story and questions
Well I just got back from the memorial and spreading dads ashes. I didn't get to spend much time around the G. However, by the VIN it does appear that it was a Gaser and converted at some point. The engine appears to be a 616.016.14.01 or that is the designation on the head. I really didn't have much time and didn't get to play with starting it try and fix the glow plugs. I suspect I will be down in a few weeks and get to spend a little more time.
anyone interested in a w126 300sdl with about 100k miles, it will be on the market soon.
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