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Polvoson
Member
Date registered: Sep 2017
Location: Kelowna BC
Vehicle(s): 87 280 GE
Posts: 6
| 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
Hi guys
I'm new to these trucks and this is potentially my first one. I'm looking at a truck that started of as a long wb, 280GE gas. Transmission was probably manual. Currently its an auto There is a spare break fluid reservoir under the hood that I think was probably a clutch fluid reservoir. Two years ago the current owner had an OM 617A transplanted into the truck. According to him this was the second OM 617A put into this truck. The truck has been sitting since then.
I carefully looked over the truck today and although overall its in good shape, there are some glaring issues. The motor swap was done very sloppily. Lots of unfinished work, hoses and wires left hanging, un-tightened nuts and bolts etc. The motor starts and runs extremely well, however the truck does not drive very well. The tranny fluid was very low when i started looking so I topped it up and then discovered that the tranny cooler lines to and from the cooler are leaking. One has a broken banjo at the tranny and the other has a kink that became a leak at the cooler. There is JB weld on both of them in an apparent repair attempt...
I took the truck out for a drive and cant get it to go faster than 90km/hr on flat ground. I expected slow acceleration but I don't think this is right.
So my questions are: How fast should I expect this truck to go in this configuration and an apparently healthy motor?
Would a massive tranny leak prevent the truck from reaching a normal speed?
Am I better off swapping in a manual tranny? Swapping to a healthier auto? The gear selector between 4 and 3 doesn't appear to do anything. Feels sloppy. truck shift normally in auto but the linkage may not have been properly hooked up.
The price is right and I'm capable of doing all the work myself, but I'm wondering if maybe I should keep looking?
thanks
Paul
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AirheadNut
Member
Date registered: Nov 2016
Location: Montana
Vehicle(s): 1988 280GE SWB
Posts: 31
| RE: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
I can't answer most of your questions, but with regards to speed I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to reach 110kph with a healthy 617 turbo. I also don't know much about auto transmissions but I suspect that low fluid would adversely effect both acceleration and cruising, and depending on the size of the leak a drop in pressure would almost certainly cause problems. Normally I am a diehard manual person, but the auto boxes in these W460's are superb, crisp units when working properly.
Edited by AirheadNut 9/5/2017 12:05 AM
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
There is something wrong imo. It should go almost 130 with 205 R 16 wheels.
A dodgy transmission can cause the symptoms. Check the engine for sump back pressure, misfiring and excessive blue smoke especially when cold.
I dont know an auto tranny behind this engine but imagine it to be pretty good as this engine has huge turbo lag which I find a bit irritating combined with my manual box.
If the car is in good nick and the right price, and you say you have the hands, then engine and transmission are not the worst issues to sort out imo.
Beware of rust and front axle troubles. |
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Polvoson
Member
Date registered: Sep 2017
Location: Kelowna BC
Vehicle(s): 87 280 GE
Posts: 6
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
Thanks for the replies. The motor is the best part of the truck. No smoke at all. Zero. starts and runs perfectly. I think this may be one where I put a bit of money into before I buy it. If I can get it performing normally then Ill get it, if not, then I guess it is what it is. The owner is asking $10,500 CND.
Would a manual swap be excessively expensive? Are the manuals available?
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bluegg
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2016
Location: Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1985 300GDT, 2003 Beetle 1.8t S, 1982 F350 SC Dual
Posts: 141
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
There can be many issues with a 617A swap into W460.
Fitment and linkages can cause a lot of trouble.
Big issue are motor mounts. Without provision of motor mounts to move new engine away from front diff you can smash the upper and lower oil pan and sump to scrap.
617A has deeper sump and can be contacted by rising axle before full compression.
Oil cooler lines need to be routed around this alteration and only one that was on the original engine can be used. Other needs to be longer.
There is also a bracket welded to the floor pan in middle to accommodate auto shifter for height and location.
Check on club G wagon. there is quite a bit about it.
Even the gas tank sender is different and tank rots quickly when switched from gas to diesel.
Viscous fan on diesel.
There's a fair checklist. I've been correcting a bad swap part time for a year. But I'm in no rush to drive it. |
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Warren T
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): 230GE,300GD,300D
Posts: 519
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
Where are you located
Check differential ratio, should be 4.88. If so use 32 or 33in. tires and it will go 110 to120KPH comfortably.
Warren |
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
Are you sure that that spare brake fluid reservoir is not for the diff locks?
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Polvoson
Member
Date registered: Sep 2017
Location: Kelowna BC
Vehicle(s): 87 280 GE
Posts: 6
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
Hi Guys
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not sure of anything. These are new to me, and frankly I'm not familiar enough. This will take a while, I need to get manuals, end spend some time with the truck. The problem is do I get it and hope I can trouble shoot these symptoms or walk and try another? Am i right in that 10,500 Canadian is a fair price for a vehicle with this motor and potentially some issues? I haven't even seen another in this price point.
I am in Kelowna BC |
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elevatorbernie
Expert
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE
Posts: 1347
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
The most expensive used car you can buy is a cheap used mercedes.....at 10k there's going to be alot wrong with it
Edited by elevatorbernie 9/10/2017 4:05 AM
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
elevatorbernie - 9/10/2017 4:02 AM
The most expensive used car you can buy is a cheap used mercedes.
Ain't that the sad truth! |
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| RE: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
Hi Paul
I have an 85 280 ge 460 lwb that got a 617 swap.
Your story sounds extremely similar to mine I got my G in pieces and not running for a really good price . the slow top end I recommend checking your throttle linkage and your transmission shift cable mine was kind of a hokie rig after adjusting it and fiddling with it I get about 75 miles an hour now at first I was doing 55 just like you check that out in my opinion for that price you can't go wrong especially if you know how to work on it . you came to the right place for compatent answers good luck Sean |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
Aha. I think Sean may be on the money. I have had that same issue before now that he reminds me, where the accelerator linkage does not open the injector pump all the way to the stopper.
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sean
Member
Date registered: Dec 2015
Location: austin texas United States
Vehicle(s): 88 300gd 460 swb right hand 85 280ge 617a turbo di
Posts: 48
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
Also a lack of top end could be fuel filter issues.
Always always suspect them before anything in my opinion.
Primary and secondary change is a cheap first ,go to, option
Sean |
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Polvoson
Member
Date registered: Sep 2017
Location: Kelowna BC
Vehicle(s): 87 280 GE
Posts: 6
| RE: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
The filters were also my first go to. I replaced them right away. Didn't do a thing, but hey at least he has new filters now.
Ok, I've decided to buy the truck. will get it it this week and start ripping into it. I personally feel that it is something minor.
Thanks for the help so far. More questions to come I'm sure,
Paul |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
Polvoson - 9/13/2017 10:40 AM
The filters were also my first go to. I replaced them right away. Didn't do a thing, but hey at least he has new filters now.
Ok, I've decided to buy the truck. will get it it this week and start ripping into it. I personally feel that it is something minor.
Thanks for the help so far. More questions to come I'm sure,
Paul
Be sure to go into your My Profile to complete the sections telling us the year and model of your G, as well as where you're located. That information helps us to get to know and to answer your future questions better. Happy Trails! |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
I know the thread is pretty old, but for some reason nobody mentioned the pressure line from the intake manifold to the top of the injection pump. If this line is not there, or is cracked or broken, the IP won't sense the manifold pressure, will not increase fuel delivery, and the truck will drive like a normally aspirated diesel, which is exactly what you describe (zero smoke etc low power under load).
Check that one.
-Dave G. |
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Polvoson
Member
Date registered: Sep 2017
Location: Kelowna BC
Vehicle(s): 87 280 GE
Posts: 6
| RE: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
Hmmmm This line you speak of...
I just checked. I have no lines leading from the top of the intake manifold to the IP.
Could you please take a pic and post? |
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Polvoson
Member
Date registered: Sep 2017
Location: Kelowna BC
Vehicle(s): 87 280 GE
Posts: 6
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
So I bought the truck. Its a really nice lawn ornament for now..
Many leaks etc. Pulled off the transmission cooler lines. One has a bend gone bad and is kinked/cracked. The other seems alright.
I noticed that one of the banjo receiving nuts on the bottom of the tranny appears jimmied in there. I think someone cracked the original and swapped in this little sleeve with JB weld.
Does anyone have a pic of what it 'should' look like? |
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kmaser
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Oct 2008
Location: Alberta canada / UAE
Vehicle(s): 1988 280GE SWB 617A with IP mods and HX30
Posts: 301
| RE: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
The line from the IP should go to the the boost protection valve then the intake or direct if it was removed
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bluegg
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2016
Location: Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1985 300GDT, 2003 Beetle 1.8t S, 1982 F350 SC Dual
Posts: 141
| Re: 87 280GE with OM 617A issues
I had some issues with this boost protection system as well.
The pressure line runs out of a special longer banjo bolt in the rear end of my intake/rocker cover.
Routes to a protection valve on the firewall near the brake booster.
Above pressure line runs into valve and another runs out to ALDA.
Valve also has green wire connection that at first I assumed was ground until I came to understand that Mercedes uses brown ground wires.
First off my ALDA was completely missing and pressure line from protection valve was just tucked among some wires.
I got an uncompromised ALDA off a well maintained 617A in 300SD 1984 and took whole setup from ALDA through protection valve and to banjo bolt from rocker cover.
I cleaned everything thoroughly and put on my 617A starting at ALDA.
When I took out the existing banjo bolt from my engine rocker I found it was a very short bolt.
I put in my new longer bolt as final piece of the replacement and what a difference.
I now have the balls I expected and over boost protection with a factory set and sealed ALDA.
The previous picture is the finishing end of the system at the injection pump connected to the ALDA.
The pressure hose should lead you up to the protection valve on the firewall and the second pressure hose coming out of the valve should lead you to a banjo bolt on your rocker cover.
Edited by bluegg 10/23/2017 5:05 PM
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