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kriswaatch
Member
Date registered: May 2017
Location: Montreal, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1990 W461 250GD Wolf
Posts: 28
| 24 and 12 volt stuff
G'day fellow Geländewagen'rs;
now that I have had my Wolf for the past couple weeks, and enjoying the heck out it, it's time to start getting down to business and making it more liveable.
I visited Warren a couple weeks ago (Kudos to Warren, by the way, great guy, knowledgeable as heck) and while there, I saw how he outfitted one of his Gelandewagen's with a mattress in the back. Which gave me an idea, why not do that with mine. Only thing is, though, he has a LWB, whereas I have a SWB. Now, I'm vertically challenged at 5'7", but heck, I'm not that short where I could lay down and not be crunched up into a ball to fit. Initially, I was thinking of adding a rooftop tent. But, that also creates another challenge, as I have a softtop. But, there's a member here (Razon) that made his own rollover cage, which also acted as a mounting point for rooftop accessories. At some point, I still think I'm going to the same thing, and fabricate something like Razon's, but, in the meantime, I really liked Warren's mattress idea. Which is exactly what I did. I removed the rear passenger seats, and all the mounts (for sale, by the way) and using the same bolt holes, I created a frame with some 2x3"s and plywood on top. Rudimentary, but it works. I can now put in 4 plastic bins with all my camping gear, tools, food and whatnot underneath, and can use the platform to eventually buy a sponge to lie on. This looks nice (https://www.amazon.ca/Zinus-Memory-Mattress-Topper-Queen/dp/B073HD682V/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1529535262&sr=8-3&keywords=3%22%2Bmemory%2Bfoam&th=1).
But, I'm still left with the, how will I fit, vertically challenged and all. Simple fix, I reckon. The passenger seat, when pushed up, can give me an additional foot. So, from the space where the drivers seat edge ends (right side) to the passengers seat where it meets the door, I added a hinge to my mattress platform, so the platform extends out when I want to use it. I'll try and add some pictures. I ended up using it that weekend, and it worked perfectly.
Alright, back on topic. Electrics.
My truck is the 24v variety, and as you all know, it does add some complications when you want to accessorize it to your needs.
I guess one of the first things you need to do, is come up with a list of 'what are your needs'. Ok, I won't make a list, but, I have a pretty good idea what that is. This truck, for me, is to get out there. When weekends come, I want to get out of the city and go 4x4'ing and camping. Also, a few times a year, I will go on longer trips (2 weeks at a time) and go into the bush and stay there.
My needs
air compressor - to air up tires after 4x4'ing (this will be a 24v Puma) - nothing to be done here with electronics then
Winch - 12v, the 24v winches are just way too freagin' expensive
USB and 12v cigarette lighter plugs for up front and back
Radio, at some point (not a priority) - so, even a 24v tractor one will do
LED lighting strips for when I'm cooking and just doing regular work around the truck when I'm parked
CB Radio
Fridge - eventually
For the time being, I want to keep the truck as a 24v, and I DO NOT want to use starting batteries to run accessories off of it. Except perhaps, the air compressor, which the engine will be running when I do air up.
So, the way I see it, is I have several different options. And, this is the whole reason why I am bringing this up here, to get your feedback, arguments, suggestions, hate mail etc.
1) Sterling Power (http://www.sterling-power-usa.com/24volt-12volt30ampbatterytobatterycharger.aspx)
Advantages - plug and play, can add solar panels later on to charge
Disadvantage - when it breaks down, you lose everything
2) Redarc (https://redarcelectronics.com/collections/in-vehicle-dual-battery-chargers)
same sort of deal as above, but, with perhaps more experience
Same advantages and disadvantages
3) 24v to 12v converter (https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-High-Power-Converter-Regulator-Transformer/dp/B01LY8D4WD/ref=pd_ybh_a_28?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=CZ6R0MH5MXV4MAT1ABXT)
Advantages - if something breaks down, it can be replaced. Need to add solar charging module somewhere in the circuit
Disadvantages - not sure
4) 24v to 12v converter (https://www.thepowerstore.com/victron-orion-24v-to-12v-300w-25a-non-isolated-dc-dc-converter?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhvyamMSs2wIVyFmGCh28VQYJEAYYBSABEgJWT_D_BwE)
Advantages and Disadvantages - same as 3
and last but not least, a solenoid
5) Battery Isolator (no idea what this is - https://www.amazon.com/PAC-PAC-500-500-Amp-Battery-Isolator/dp/B001Y...)
I'm a little hazy on this idea, but, apparently some G-wageners have used it.
So, my question are, which idea do you fellas prefer?
And ummm, sorry for the long post.
Cheers
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Fenalaar
Elite Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
| RE: 24 and 12 volt stuff
Doing a 12V winch on a 24V car is certainly not inexpensive or uncomplicated.
A 12V winch draws a hell of a lot of current (200A+ at max), so you can't use a simple, cheap dc-dc converter. You cant' just power it of one of the batteries either, and it really should have the dynamo to be supplying most of the power. A 30A charger to charge the 12V battery from 24V will not cut it.
My advice is to get a dc-dc converter for the smaller stuff (radio, cigarette lighter outlet, USB, CB and fridge), and look more to find a 24V winch. Try military surplus warehouses and auctions - those will usually have 24V winches, and not 12V ones.
Johan-Kr |
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fernweh
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
| RE: 24 and 12 volt stuff
Would it not be possible to create a dual battery set-up in this vehicle.
Use both batteries in series, for the original electrical vehicle system, starter, alternator, gauges and so on, and then create a separate wiring system off only one battery, to power the special 12V equipment.
What does my friend Alan can add to this simple idea? |
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kriswaatch
Member
Date registered: May 2017
Location: Montreal, Canada
Vehicle(s): 1990 W461 250GD Wolf
Posts: 28
| Re: 24 and 12 volt stuff
Fenalaar
I completely agree about the winch probably drawing too many amps off of a single, or even 2 12v batteries.
My initial idea was to have a 24v winch, but damn those things are expensive.
fernweh
That's exactly what I want to do, a dual-battery system. But, unlike most of you folk that have 12v G's, I have a 24v, which complicates these sort of things. But, at the end of the day, yes, that's what I want to accomplish, a dual-battery system.
I figure for most of my needs, lights, charging phones, fridge, the 12v system will work. But, the winch, not so sure about.
But, to suck juice from one of those 24v starting batteries is not a good idea, as it both batteries won't be equally charged. Apparently, and for obvious reasons, it is not good practice.
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wonder9
Member
Date registered: Apr 2015
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Vehicle(s): 1991 ex-Bundeswehr 250GD Wolf; 2011 G550
Posts: 15
| RE: 24 and 12 volt stuff
I also have a 250GD Wolf. I've gone out of my way to keep all electrical loads at 24V just to keep things simple. My previous Pinzgauer 6x6 had a 24v to 12v converter and I just didn't care for the complication of having 2 electrical "systems". Still, you might find the following link helpful if you have your heart set on running 12V accessories:
http://bus.getdave.com/Docs/12Von24V/
Edited by wonder9 6/27/2018 1:16 AM
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: 24 and 12 volt stuff
The only thing I can add is: If the winch is only going to be used in a dire emergency, then you could install a 12V inch, disconnect the 24V series wiring frrom the batteries and wire them in parallel for the duration of the work. No engine charging assist though. Aside from that hairbrained suggestion, I think a 24V which is the solution. Hydraulic?
Edited by AlanMcR 6/27/2018 10:32 AM
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Winch
AlanMcR - 6/27/2018 10:32 AM
The only thing I can add is: If the winch is only going to be used in a dire emergency, then you could install a 12V inch, disconnect the 24V series wiring frrom the batteries and wire them in parallel for the duration of the work. No engine charging assist though. Aside from that hairbrained suggestion, I think a 24V which is the solution. Hydraulic?
I had the factory Rotzler winch on my 280GE. I never once used it for recovery in the 18 years I drove it. I did use in on more than one occasion to pull trees in the right direction that I was felling. I also used it to drag logs closer to where I wanted to cut them up once they were laying on the ground.
Maybe I just never took it into those gnarly situations where a winch would have been needed.  |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Winch
DUTCH - 6/27/2018 8:34 AM I had the factory Rotzler winch on my 280GE. I never once used it for recovery in the 18 years I drove it. I did use in on more than one occasion to pull trees in the right direction that I was felling. I also used it to drag logs closer to where I wanted to cut them up once they were laying on the ground. Maybe I just never took it into those gnarly situations where a winch would have been needed. :cheers: I've done quite a bit of offroad, often by myself. I can only recall being winched out once (someone will likely correct my faulty memory). Admittedly, in the situation, self-recovery would have meant hours of digging. Two sand boards would have cut that in half. Mid-recovery photo below. I got into that situation by looking away from where I was going for just a moment. Once I started sliding off the side of that sand bar, it was all over. Had I been alone, I would have stopped right away and dug a proper route out the front. Since we had a winch handy I tried backing out. Play time had to stop when the rock wall got too close.
All other winching events that I can recall involved using my G as the winch anchor when nose-heavy Gs sunk into a "dry" lake that I was able to drive right over. A lot of the places I like to go are tens of miles from the nearest tree.
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: 24 and 12 volt stuff
what is picr.de?
You could have self rescued with a winch and a Pull-pal there. But that's a lot of stuff to be carrying around. Those Pull-pals look pretty bulky.
Edited by otiswesty 6/27/2018 4:45 PM
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Re: 24 and 12 volt stuff
picr.de is a freebee picture hosting site. The viermalvier.de forum picture posting instructions suggest using it. Works well. Extra cold beer, a sand plate or two, and shoveling would have given me a forward exit. All I needed to do was get the G level so that it wouldn't keep sliding towards the driver's side. Live and learn. That sand was very loose, I remember sinking well past my ankle when I stepped out.
Edited by AlanMcR 6/28/2018 1:32 AM
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