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Eradicating Gremlins
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Posted 7/31/2006 10:15 PM
Adoni
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
1000
Eradicating Gremlins

So I have after much pain and suffering managed to get rid of my most annoying gremlins. Namely, I replaced my ignition setup and adjusted the fuel mixture. The fuel mixture made the most noticeable difference as the motor purrs like a kitten now and displays almost no vibration. Before, the engine could be seen physically vibrating from side to side. With the ignition and spark setup replaced the car starts up with no problems and never quits on me which is lovely when on road trips and off road. The final problem has to due with the "overheating" I mentioned some time back. The car does not "overheat" while driving, in fact it stay in quite a comfortable range between 1/2 and 3/4. However, on extremely hot days after driving the car, the engine temperature will rise into or around the red area once the car has been shut off and coolant is no longer circulating. When I go to restart the car, the fan clutch engages and the fan begins its attempt to cool the vehicle, but if the car is too hot, this is to no avail and I must wait for the car to cool down some more. Is there any way other than opening the hood to get excess heat out from under the hood? Is it possible the car wont restart because of a "flat spot" on my starter, ever though I have actually physically replaced the starter only a few months ago? This is my last little gremlin, at least for now, and the one thing that prevents me from adding the winch to the vehicle even on a removable setup. Please advise. As an aside I am fairly confident most of my issues have been caused by the ramshackle federalization job done to make my vehicle US legal in the 80's, especially the two little switches between the fuel mixture and motor, I anxiously await the day my car no longer requires to be smogged so I can rip all of that stuff off that was never initially designed for the vehicle.
#34186
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Posted 8/1/2006 12:59 AM
DesertStar
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000
RE: Eradicating Gremlins

Mine does the same on hot days and off to the red zone when stopping for fuel or a Big Gulp. Some have rigged a switch to turn aux fan on and off on demand but I think there has got to be some type of timer device/relay or something that could solve this. Maybe something along the lines of a relay like that used for glow plugs that works independent of the ignition switch. On another note, I wonder if it really a serious issue as you would of thought the engineers would have developed something if it was an issue for the 10 year W460 build. One may also want to check the draw on the battery for the auxiliary fan for extended use while engine is not running then you will have other issues. I could swear I have heard a parked car with the aux fan running when I was younger but cant think of the model...which could lead to the part needed. On the brighter side, it is August and the cool season is around the corner.
Out of curiosity, since my G was from southern california as well as yours, do you have a O2 sensor on your exhaust ? Looks like a sparkplug tapped into your exhaust with a wire. Just curious if this goes to one of your "switches" you mentioned.

mike
#34331 - in reply to #34186
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Posted 8/1/2006 3:43 AM
Adoni
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
1000
Re: Eradicating Gremlins

Yes, I do have an O2 sensor, the switches i refer to are a bit diferent though, ill explain and give pictures. By the way, do u ever have a problem restarting your car when the heat is in the red? Oh, and my fan on my ml will run with the car off and keys out depending on how hot it is.
#34356 - in reply to #34186
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Posted 8/1/2006 10:17 AM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
RE: Eradicating Gremlins

It's perfectly normal for the temp gauge to rise, even to the red, after shut down.  It shouldn't effect the ability to re-start unless something else is wrong.  If I get back in right away under the right conditions I can find my temp gauge in the red.  Motor starts on the first crank, and this is a tired old M110 with 300k+ on the clock.

Can you elaborate a little on the symptoms of your no-start?  Does the engine crank but not fire, fire but not run, or not crank at all?

Starters will draw more current when heat soaked and all the wiring connections will be that much more important.

-Dave G.

#34406 - in reply to #34186
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Posted 8/1/2006 2:54 PM
DesertStar
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000
RE: Eradicating Gremlins

I have not had restart issues when hot. Although, I do follow the owners manual which says "on a hot engine, that almost in red, to depress accelerator slowly while starting". Knowing you, you probably have already tried this along with other combinations. I have noticed that fuel quality has a small impact on idling and startability. I think there are adjustments that can be made on the Jetronic injection system for cold and hot starts. A symptom of "vapor-lock" is the problem starting which is caused by loss of fuel pressure in fuel lines when hot.
Which is probably why the manual suggests a little "goosing" of the accelerator. I wouldnt sweat this gremlin so much as to prevent you from your other G projects as there arent that many components involved in the starting system to troubleshoot.

On a side note, the temp switch for the auxilliary fan can be replaced with one that kicks in at lower temperatures but wont have impact when engine is shut off.

Mike
#34553 - in reply to #34186
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Posted 8/1/2006 3:27 PM
Adoni
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
1000
Re: Eradicating Gremlins

The starter is the issue I'm looking into. Right now I'm considering bypassing some lines and connecting the electrical charge directly to the starter so that I get a full power load at the starter even when the underhood temperature is at its hottest. This is why I suggested earlier that perhaps I have a "flat spot" on my starter. I also wonder if the heat is making my starter swell and so it wont spin...BTW, the stmptom is that the starter/motor etc will not crank at all. Usually 10 mins is about all it takes to get the car to restart, less time than that if i open the hood, howver, I feel like a dolt with my hood open in the parking lot of a local grocery store after leaving the ranch.

Edited by Adoni 8/1/2006 3:29 PM
#34573 - in reply to #34186
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Posted 8/1/2006 3:40 PM
DesertStar
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000
Re: Eradicating Gremlins

Adoni - 8/1/2006 12:27 PM

I feel like a dolt with my hood open in the parking lot of a local grocery store after leaving the ranch.


Unless you are at a grocery store in "West Sac"...then you would "fit in"

Mike
#34580 - in reply to #34573
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Posted 8/1/2006 5:51 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
Re: Eradicating Gremlins

....The starter is the issue .....

In that case, don't forget the grounding.  A lot of times that braided ground strap gets frayed or otherwise worn away or the connections corroded.  Make sure it's in good shape and the connections are solid at the engine (starter mounting bolt), the lug on the chassis, and the body connection under the battery tray.  And then check both ends of the "-" cable on the battery.

Do you hear the "click" of the solenoid pulling in, but no starter spin?  Or is there just no response at all to the turning of the key?  Grounding can be the issue in either case.  The solenoid is probably more often effected by heat than is the motor itself (solenoid trouble would be nothing at all when key is turned, motor trouble wouldbe the audible "click" of solenoid pulling in, but no starter spin).

Good luck!

-Dave G.

PS - edting now, maybe a dumb question, but is the starter heat shield in place?  There's supposed to be a thin metal shield on top of the starter, on the side that's toward the exhaust manifolds.  It's there to help with exactly this issue.  Maybe some past owner or mechanic neglected to replace it one time, or it just corroded away or something.  I always forget to ask the obvious stuff, so just making sure.



Edited by hipine 8/1/2006 5:54 PM
#34635 - in reply to #34573
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Posted 8/1/2006 8:17 PM
Adoni
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
1000
Re: Eradicating Gremlins

Yes the heat shield is still in place, tonight, after everything cools down I'm going to comb over all the connections and grounds just to see if anything is amiss. As for your comment Mike, you werent too far off, it was at the Nugget market on Mace Blvd in Davis...last grocery store before you get to the Causeway and cross into West Sac...lol
#34758 - in reply to #34186
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Posted 8/1/2006 8:19 PM
Adoni
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
1000
Re: Eradicating Gremlins

By the way, do you have a part number for those arm rests, I want a set for the G-Ride. I love it, I can say G-Ride when referring to the G-Wagen and everyone doesn't look at me like I'm some moron referring to his ghetto hoopty.
#34759 - in reply to #34186
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Posted 8/1/2006 11:42 PM
DesertStar
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000
RE: Eradicating Gremlins

I found the armrests on ebay. I do a search everyday and if I see any will alert you. Everyday I search the following items:
Mercedes G
G class
mercedes diesel
recaro seat
1985 Mercedes
Helphos (the G spotlight)

Mike

#34802 - in reply to #34186
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Posted 8/2/2006 7:02 AM
Ernest T Bass

Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
Re: Eradicating Gremlins

I had a starting problem with my truck: It would frequently refuse to start when hot – after getting gas – wait a few mins and away it went. It could be started by shorting the solenoid cables under the hood. I finally installed a relay on the ignition starter circuit and that cured the problem. The ignition switch could not pass enough current when it had warmed up to power the solenoid.

A few months later it was just clicking instead of turning the starter motor – this was cured by tightening up the main power cable from the battery to the starter.
#34873 - in reply to #34580
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Posted 8/2/2006 7:53 AM
Inkblotz
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
2000
Re: Eradicating Gremlins

If you still need to release some heat from under the hood. It has been mentioned here before to remove the rubber hood sealing strip. The one between the hood and the windshield. You can leave the air intake seal. That may cool your ride a bit quicker.

From all that has been said, before you start rewiring everything just replace or have the starter rebuilt. You may just need to replace the soleniod. It sounds like the best fix. Heat rises and with the low position of the starter the heat should not in my opinion effect its performance particularly when parked. The starter must be at fault.

Mark
#34876 - in reply to #34186
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Posted 8/2/2006 3:33 PM
Adoni
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
1000
Re: Eradicating Gremlins

Only problem is, I replaced the starter two months ago, the old one was fried...
#34922 - in reply to #34186
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Posted 8/2/2006 3:36 PM
Adoni
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
1000
Re: Eradicating Gremlins

By the way, I wont be on for a few days I'm leaving this evening for Sequoia Natl. right by Camp Nelson, figure I'll do a bit of fishing and the like. Unfortunately, the G is going to stay at home and get itself ready to go to Red Bluff for some good times the following week.
#34923 - in reply to #34186
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