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| BenzDieselTuner Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO i experience the same thing often as well...... | ||
| #47809 - in reply to #4976 |
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| Dieselburns Expert  Date registered: May 2006 Location: New York, Long Island Vehicle(s): 78' MB 300D 87 Chief Cherokee Posts: 2251  | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO Whats is the best svo oil to use!?! | ||
| #48083 - in reply to #47809 |
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| BenzDieselTuner Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO Peanut Oil is the original, i run on Soybean Oil for now, caus its cheapest right now, then theres canola oil and rapeseed oil and hemp oil and corn oil, and a bunch of others, they will pretty much run on any "oil" there is......... | ||
| #48191 - in reply to #4976 |
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| BenzDieselTuner Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO im usin WVO for my deliveries today!! | ||
| #48192 - in reply to #4976 |
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| Dieselburns Expert Date registered: May 2006 Location: New York, Long Island Vehicle(s): 78' MB 300D 87 Chief Cherokee Posts: 2251 | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO Uh oh bad WVO I used! Clogged up my small filter! Wasnt that bad because I have alot of filters in my car! Dont worry car is good as new! | ||
| #52041 - in reply to #47804 |
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| BenzDieselTuner Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO thats good to know i myself am just coming in from picking up another 30 gal. of WVO, from the italian restaurant..... tommorrow morning its filter it and in the tank with it! | ||
| #52080 - in reply to #4976 |
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| VWBusMan1 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO Is there an optimal mix of veggie, diesel and kerosene or even gasoline? I've heard for some time now that in very cold weather one can mix up to 5% kero or gas in with diesel to keep it flowing. Hence, that begs the question: Has anybody experimented with the optimal mix (assuming no fuel delivery mods like pre-heaters) of veggie oil, diesel and gasoline or kerosene at different temperatures? Seems to me there would be ways to mix these components and avoid pre-heating alltogether or mostly. Just hoping somebody has done the experiment. Thanks much, Mark | ||
| #58953 - in reply to #4976 |
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| BenzDieselTuner Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO u can mix diesel with many things, such as kerosene, regular unleaded, or veggie oil........ kerosene dont go more than 10 %, 5 % with gas, and u can mix veggie oil with diesel in any mix ratio... i hope this helps you... | ||
| #59522 - in reply to #4976 |
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| VWBusMan1 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO Thanks much! | ||
| #59758 - in reply to #4976 |
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| c250d Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/01/tortilla_bubble/ uh oh ease up on the gas peddle or people may starve? I think theres a US vers of the register newssite | ||
| #61461 - in reply to #4976 |
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| BenzDieselTuner Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Bio-fuels trigger tortilla price bubble Demand for eco-friendly bio-fuels in the US is being blamed for a massive rise in the price of corn in Mexico. The recent 400 per cent increase in the price of a tortilla has driven thousands of Mexico's poorest people onto the streets in protest. The country has been entitled to cheap corn imports from the US for some time, under the terms of the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement. However, as demand for corn in the US has increased, driven by the manufacture of bio-fuels, the amount of corn available to Mexico has reduced considerably. According to BBC reports, many business groups have signed up to an agreement to cap the price of corn. It would put a maximum price on the crop of 77 US cents per kilo, but since it is not legally binding, it is being widely ignored. Corn is the staple grain in Mexico, and makes up the main part of the diet for many people. Since the surge in the cost of tortillas, many are spending up to a third of their income on the flat breads. The Mexican government has responded by promising to tackle hoarding and speculation. President Felipe Calderon also says he has instructed his agriculture secretary to import corn to improve the supply of the grain. | ||
| #61478 - in reply to #4976 |
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| VWBusMan1 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO Sad to see the price of corn escalate due to ethanal reasons. Of course, I'm glad to see farmer do better yet from what I read making ethanol out of corn may be a loser. Bush was right last year when he talked about growing switch grass (sim. to prarie grass) in last year's State of the Disunion address. Unfortunatly, it appears the lobbyists have gotten to the Fed's and they are now talking about corn again. Popular with farmers already growing corn yet they should swith to switchgrass like Brazil. I guess it's safe to say if there is a solution--our government won't be making it happen. Just wish they would get out of the way and let it happen. There is a Ph.D. scientist, I believe at Auburn U., who says switchgrass would not only be great for the environment, our balance of payments but also restore the family farm. Could you imagine low carbon impact energy and a lot of unemployed people happily going back to farming. I guess that's why the gov't is going to get involved and misdirect us to corn because the big companies grow so much of it. I only go on this rant because there is no reason, other than politics, that the US couldn't create substantial ethanol and veggie oil to hit a home run. Guess we'll have to wait another 2 years for some honesty on the energy front as well. My rant, thanks, Mark | ||
| #63016 - in reply to #4976 |
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| BenzDieselTuner Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO thats very interesting. i have never heard of Switchgrass myself, that just goes to show you how the powers that be in the US cover up everything important...... i am still patiently waiting for them to start selling Biodiesel at the pumps in florida, but at the rate its going, it'll be YEARS before that finally happens...... | ||
| #63020 - in reply to #4976 |
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| Wolfgang Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO And here's the latest MBUSA missive about using B5 biodiesel in the new CDI engines. The approval also includes Bluetec engines now.  http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/OEM%20Statements/20060608_Merced... | ||
| #63645 - in reply to #4976 |
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| BenzDieselTuner Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Mercedes-Benz Position on Biodiesel 1-19-07 Mercedes-Benz USA now approves the use of B5 biodiesel (standard diesel with a maximum 5 % biodiesel content) in all Common Rail Injection Diesel "CDI-engines" – including BLUETEC engines. As biodiesel can be refined from a variety of raw materials resulting in widely varying properties, the only approved biodiesel content is one that meets the ASTM D6751 specification and that has additionally the necessary oxidation stability (min. 6h, proved with EN14112 method ) to prevent damages to the system from deposits and/or corrosion. Please ask your service station for further information. If the B5 biodiesel blend is not sufficiently labeled to clearly indicate that it meets the above standards, please do not use it. The Mercedes-Benz limited warranty does not cover damage caused by the use of fuels not meeting Mercedes-Benz approved fuel standards. | ||
| #63651 - in reply to #4976 |
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| BenzDieselTuner Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Case study in converting a diesel auto to run on vegetable oil...... Introduction and Fuel Types Now that gas prices have gone through the roof again folks are going to be hearing a lot about alternative fuels and automotive advancements that save gas. While a lot of attention has been given to new and exotic technologies like hydrogen powered cars and hybrid electric vehicles, a simpler and more time-tested solution exists in the form of biodiesel and vegetable oil fuels. Instead of expensive new technologies, the trusty diesel engine running domestically grown bio-fuels and/or used cooking oil is suddenly being rediscovered as a viable alternative. On this page, you'll learn more about biodiesel, and about the process of converting a used Mercedes Benz diesel to run on vegetable oil. The process described in this article, and much of its content, was inspired by another article written by Lyle Pearl of Santa Fe, NM. You can also download and read Lyle's original article in PDF format to supplement this article. Before we begin with our discussion of biodiesel conversions, it's important to understand the different types of fuels that can be used in a diesel engine. There are three basic types: Diesel pump Petroleum Diesel - Petroleum diesel is refined from petroleum for specific use in diesel engines. This is the diesel you find at your local gas station or truck stop. Because it comes from petroleum, it produces carbon dioxide, pollution, particulates and sulfur emissions and increases reliance on foreign oil. Biodiesel pump Biodiesel - Biodiesel comes from renewable plant sources, such as oils from vegetables, peanuts, soy beans, canola/rape seeds, hemp seeds and some grains which are domestically and abundantly available. More specifically though, biodiesel refers to plant-derived diesel that has been subjected to the process of transesterification, a chemical modification of ordinary vegetable oil which makes the fuel meet high industry standards (ASTM D6751) for usage in diesel engines [see notes below] and prevents it from solidifying at colder temperatures. Sometimes biodiesel is mixed with petroleum diesel in different proportions and still sold under the name "biodiesel," even though the biodiesel content may be as low as only 5%. Biodiesel and petroleum diesel mix extremely well and commercially available blends use the labelling B5, B20, B50 or B100, to reflect the percentage of biodiesel to regular diesel. Biodiesel in pure form produces significantly less emissions than petroleum diesel and zero sulfur emissions. Used cooking oil Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) - Straight vegetable oil refers to any vegetable oil that can power diesel engines but has not been optimized (through transesterification) for usage in automobile fuel systems under all temperature conditions. The major drawback of using SVO is that it gels at colder temperatures and must be heated prior to reaching the engine's fuel injectors during cold weather. You can buy cooking oil and use it straight from the bottle (very expensive), or you can get it used from restaurants, which is commonly called Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) [photo]. WVO must be filtered prior to use since it contains many food particles. SVO/WVO are derived from plants such as peanuts, soy, canola/rape seed, and other grains. Both thicken at colder temperatures and can clog fuel systems unless they are heated and filtered before reaching the engine (vegetable oil can even solidify below 25 degrees Fahrenheit). Vegetable oil conversion kits include a heating system and usually a second gas tank [photo] to circumvent the cold weather issues. SVO also produces extremely low emissions. Pros and Cons of Converting a Diesel Engine to Run Vegetable Oil Pros * Diesel engines are uniquely suited to run vegetable oils because the inventor, Rudolph Diesel (1858-1913) originally designed them to run off of peanut oil. Even though the first diesel engine was patented (No. 67207) in 1892, today's diesel engines are not much different from Diesel's first engine. Thus, they are ready, willing and able to run on all kinds of environmentally friendly fuels. * Saves money on fuel costs. * Reduces emissions. There is a 90% reduction in emissions when choosing to use pure biodiesel over petroleum diesel [see references below]. As oil-bearing plants such as soybeans grow, they take in carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere. The same amount of CO2 is released back into the atmosphere when vegetable oil is burned. This process is referred to as being “Carbon Neutral” because there is an equal exchange in carbon dioxide uptake and release. Burning fossil fuels continually adds to the carbon load of the atmosphere. The current planetary carbon dioxide output is well beyond the Earth’s natural ability to trap it and the atmosphere has the highest CO2 concentration in modern times. Most scientists believe this to be the cause of global warming. * Recycles waste oil from restaurants. * SVO can (and is) made domestically using renewable crops, employing farmers and helping the local economy. * Make a positive political statement. Decrease your reliance on a system that you may criticize. There are alternative sources of energy, now! Help create a new system, one that reflects your values. * Biodiesel exhaust smells like popcorn! Cons * Some vehicle warranties can be voided by installing a conversion kit and/or using biodiesel. If you have a relatively new car that's still under warranty, this is an important concern and you should check with your car manufacturer. * Gathering used oil is messy work. But as the alternative fuel movement gains in momentum, fuel and supplies are becoming more available and easier to implement. * There is mixed data on how SVO affects engine life span. Some say the life span is reduced: "McCormick, a senior fuels engineer for the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, CO, said studies have shown that running vehicles on vegetable oil can reduce a car's lifespan. 'Those vehicles aren't going to last as long as they would running on conventional fuel,' McCormick said. 'Diesel engines are supposed to be low-maintenance and long-lasting engines. Running on straight vegetable oil, I don't think that's going to happen.'" Source: The Kansas City Star; "One Man's Fish Fry Grease is Another Man's Vehicle Fuel" March 29, 2005. However, many others claim the opposite; "engine wear is greatly reduced, sometimes tripling engine life for engines running on straight vegetable oil." Source: www.distributiondrive.com. Case Study: Converting a Stock 1980 Mercedes Benz 240 TD Diesel Step #1: Get a diesel vehicle for which conversion kits are available. Our co-author Lyle Pearl, of Santa Fe, NM purchased a 1980 Mercedes 240 TD in good running condition with 143,000 miles for $2,700. Any modern diesel engine can be converted as long as there are no rubber seals used in the fuel system (only older diesels use rubber seals). Since vegetable oil is a strong solvent, the rubber seals can deteriorate and fail. Step #2: Buy a conversion kit and self-install or have it installed by a mechanic [see links to suppliers below] Lyle bought a two fuel tank conversion kit for $500 and found a local mechanic familiar with conversions who installed it for $1,000. The car's original tank was kept and holds regular diesel (or B20, B100) fuel for cold weather starting. A second tank was installed in the trunk for vegetable oil. Hoses are run from the car's radiator to the tank to heat the oil via a heat exchanger before it enters the final fuel filter and injectors inside the engine compartment. Step #3: Get Oil Vegetable oil can be made from soybeans, sunflower seed, rape seed, corn, palm, hemp seed and even algae. The easiest source is to by new vegetable oil, but it's not economical right now since the price is significantly higher than diesel. The most economical and recycle-conscious source is to collect it for free from restaurants, specifically Chinese or Japanese, due to their cooking methods. A superior oil will be amber in color and is referred to as “liquid gold.” Oil from other types of restaurants may also be suitable but may need more filtering to remove particulates. The car is started on regular diesel fuel, B20, B100, etc. from its normal gas tank. Once the vegetable oil is warm (<15 minutes depending on weather), a switch in the cabin [photo] is manually thrown allowing pure vegetable oil to flow and take over as the fuel source. The switch is thrown again a few minutes before stopping for a prolonged period of time (roughly 10 minutes depending on the temperature) to make sure the vegetable oil is purged from the fuel line and injectors so that they don't become clogged when the engine is started cold. In warm weather climates the car can be started and run completely on vegetable oil, but it's a good idea to have the regular diesel tank since you may run out of vegetable oil or want to travel to a colder climates. Also, follow the weather since the air temperature may cool down quickly after the passage of a cold front. Purging the fuel line and fuel pump/injector with B20 or regular diesel will insure that you are not caught by surprise should the weather become cold. That's it! Once the conversion is done and you've secured a source for your free veggie oil, you're on the way to kicking the petroleum monkey off your back, lowering emissions, saving radically in fuel costs, and having the satisfaction self-determination vis-a-vis the oil problem. The biodiesel revolution is REAL and happening now all over the world. It's big and it's growing fast! Join the thousands of progressive individuals who have made the commitment to doing something about a problem rather than just complaining about it. Read more user experiences with vegetable oil conversions on Greasecar.com's User Profiles section and find out even more by exploring the links below. References Doug Watson of Ohio conducted a horsepower (HP) Dyno performance test on his 1995 6.5 Ltr. Chevy. The results from the test performed on October 21, 2004 are 151.7 HP while running on vegetable oil, compared to 145.3 HP on diesel. This is encouraging, but not conclusive being only one study. Anecdotally SVO seems to offer as good or better performance. Mr. Watson also conducted a standard opacity emissions test on his 1995 6.5 LTR Chevy at a State of Ohio official vehicle inspection station. The vehicle released 3.4 ppm (parts per million) when run on diesel fuel compared to 1.8 ppm when run on vegetable oil. Burning diesel fuel released almost two times as much visible pollution as vegetable oil does. There is no sulfur in vegetable oil and therefore no sulfur in the emissions! There are sulfur dioxide emissions from the burning of petroleum diesel since low-sulfer diesel is not widely used in the USA . Sulfur dioxide emission lead to acid rain and other problems. Burning biofuel is still a logical choice over diesel as biofuel releases 90% less toxic chemicals. Carbon monoxide is reduced by 40-60% and overall carcinogens are reduced by 90% Hydrocarbon emissions are reduced by 50% which reduces photochemical smog (ozone) by 50% as well. Particulate matter, a major contributor to increased asthma cases, is reduced by 45% (see: Veggiebus.com's FAQ.) This is similar to the findings from the emissions study conducted by Doug Watson on his 1995 Chevy. Notes The process of making biodiesel from SVO/WVO is not complicated. It is done through a simple chemical process known as transesterification (similar to saponification--the chemical reaction used to make soap out of a vegetable oil/animal fat.) Vegetable oil is collected then heated to between 120-130 degrees Fahrenheit, and then filtered to remove any large particles such as french fries or tempura. Methanol (20% of volume) and sodium hydroxide (lye at 3.5-9 grams per liter) are mixed, then added to heated vegetable oil, then mixed again for one hour. The mixture is left overnight and the glycerin by-product settles to the bottom of the container. The top layer is a vegetable based fuel ready for use ( source: greaseworks.org.) PDF document detailing transesterification process (36K) Rubber engine seals in older vehicles must be replaced since biofuel has strong solvent properties. All newer diesel vehicles are fit for B100 since there do not use rubber seals. This page has more info about the rubber seal issue. It may be beneficial to use a fuel injector/piston cleaner every six months to remove any accumulated carbon deposits. Simply pour the 12 ounce bottle into the tank and drive off. A story did emerge in the 1990’s that told of possible coking of vegetable oil (carbon build up on the pistons and fuel injectors) from the incomplete burning of the fuel. This seems possible in theory and simple back-up systems provide safeguards. | ||
| #64116 - in reply to #4976 |
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| Woody Extreme Veteran Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Bend, Ore. Vehicle(s): '84 280GE -> 300GD turbo, '84 300SD veg, 06 Navion Posts: 570  | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO Does anybody in Canada, or elsewhere, have info on using Hemp as a Biofuel? I have read that the stalks can be processed into Ethanol, and the seeds (from the very same crop) contain a large quantity of oil? | ||
| #64555 - in reply to #4976 |
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| BenzDieselTuner Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO if you go to http://www.Pot-TV.net and do a search for biodiesel, theres a cool video about it..... | ||
| #65993 - in reply to #4976 |
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| Woody Extreme Veteran Date registered: Feb 2007 Location: Bend, Ore. Vehicle(s): '84 280GE -> 300GD turbo, '84 300SD veg, 06 Navion Posts: 570 | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO Hey thanks, now that's what I'm talkin about! Good piece, once I got thru the first two minutes. Geez, how I wish that Hemp was differentiated from THE M WORD. IMHO that's the prob with Hemp going mainstream, there's always those three-year olds that say, "What, are you gonna smoke your shorts?" I especially liked the part where the guy estimated that, in the lower 48 with 6% of arable farm land producing Hemp, it would meet the entire country's fuel supply needs. Even if conservative, whoa! For now I'm lucky that our local Biodiesel producer uses exclusively WVO and we get B20 all winter and B99 all summer. My Sprinter loves it. | ||
| #66063 - in reply to #4976 |
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| BenzDieselTuner Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: Alternative Fuels Thread - BioDiesel - Veggie Oil WVO/SVO its been over 2000 miles so far since i switched to only using soybean oil for fuel this season, and she's been purring along nicely....... i'm using her daily for 100's of miles of deliveries....... | ||
| #67178 - in reply to #4976 |
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