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Georges ML350
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
Some time ago I put a post on the "other" site regarding a problematic fuel guage, but I will continue it here, as I suspect that this will be my new home.
After 4 attempts by MB to rectify the problem, which included 2 system resets, new sender and some other attempted fixes, the problem was finally found to be in the instrument cluster.
2 weeks have gone by now, 2 fuel fills, and it appears to be opperating correctly.
I appears that advice from the other site, which said that the problem is quite likley in the instrument cluster turned out to be correct.
Cheers,
George.
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cmitch
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Ala-Tenn
Vehicle(s): 2002 ML320, 2005 S430 4Matic, 2010 F150 Super Crew
Posts: 3412
| RE: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
^^^^^ What other site are you referring to? I know not of what you speak!  |
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firstmb
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
I have similar problem in W164 2006 ML350, Dealer has replaced Sending Units, Sensors and the fuel guage has died again.
Maybe, I will have to convince them to replace the instrument cluster.... thanks for the info. |
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ttaleric
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
what did i tell you about coming here firstmb? You are banned!!!
Now stay out! jk
Glad to hear the problem is fixed. |
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Wolfgang
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
firstmb - 5/5/2006 8:27 AM
I have similar problem in W164 2006 ML350, Dealer has replaced Sending Units, Sensors and the fuel guage has died again.
Maybe, I will have to convince them to replace the instrument cluster.... thanks for the info.
firstmb, a couple questions.
Did you have it version coded as samhmbz had suggested?
What are the symptoms? Did you fuel up at Costo?
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samhmbz posted:
1. Your instrument cluster needs the version coding corrected/changed(insist they investigate further) |
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Wolfgang
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
By the way, if there is too much sulfur in the gas in can kill the fuel gauge. For example in May of 2004 at the start of the summer driving season several refineries in the midwest and south accidentally put too much sulfur in and it caused widespread problems, making it into the newspapers.
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/bad_fuel.txt
Edited by Wolfgang 5/5/2006 12:15 PM
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firstmb
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
Wolfgang - 5/5/2006 12:09 PM
firstmb - 5/5/2006 8:27 AM
I have similar problem in W164 2006 ML350, Dealer has replaced Sending Units, Sensors and the fuel guage has died again.
Maybe, I will have to convince them to replace the instrument cluster.... thanks for the info.
firstmb, a couple questions.
Did you have it version coded as samhmbz had suggested?
What are the symptoms? Did you fuel up at Costo?
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samhmbz posted:
1. Your instrument cluster needs the version coding corrected/changed (insist they investigate further )
A1: Nope, I have an appointment schedule next week , I will surely ask SA to check version coding. Thanks for the tip
A2: I generally fuel up at Costco, and did not had that problem. Last 2 times, I had to fuel up at Phillips 66.. and the fuel guage died since then... I will have to start fueling up at Mobil/Shell..
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firstmb
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
ttaleric - 5/5/2006 11:57 AM
what did i tell you about coming here firstmb? You are banned!!!
Now stay out! jk
Glad to hear the problem is fixed.
ttaleric, Problem is not fixed....
I am not gonna stay out, you are just jealous about the best, more powerful, great looking W164  just jokin |
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Wolfgang
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
firstmb - 5/5/2006 9:30 AM
A2: I generally fuel up at Costco, and did not had that problem. Last 2 times, I had to fuel up at Phillips 66.. and the fuel guage died since then... I will have to start fueling up at Mobil/Shell..
Here's another option... Just scanned the papers for sulfur reports in Chicago and found this. 
From the Los Angeles Times
YOUR WHEELS
Something else to hate about gasoline
High sulfur content can ruin fuel-sending units and today's mix tends to be dirtier than what you used to buy.
By Ralph Vartabedian
Times Staff Writer
May 3, 2006
A typical two-vehicle American family can easily spend $5,000 a year for gasoline, a product they never see that goes from an underground storage tank into a hole in the side of their car or truck.
It's not easy to judge the quality of that product, but without question there are batches of garbage gasoline that sometimes cause serious problems.
Take, for example, the issue of high sulfur — elemental sulfur and sulfur oxide — that contaminates a tank and can lead to false gauge readings. Tens of thousands of motorists in recent years have sustained damage to their vehicles from such gasolines distributed in areas across the country, according to lawsuits and gas experts.
The high sulfur fuels can damage fuel sending units that operate the dashboard gas gauges, causing them to give erratic readings — false high readings and false low readings.
Until recently, the only fix to the problem has involved draining the tank and replacing the sending units, a repair that costs up to $1,000. But fuel additive manufacturers in the last year have come up with a much cheaper fix.
Although oil companies and auto manufacturers know a lot about the problem of sulfur contamination that affects fuel sensors, relatively few motorists have heard about the issue. More broadly, until the last few years, the average quality of gasoline had been slipping.
"The average level of gasoline detergent has declined," said Scott Cushing, a fuel additives expert at Chevron Corp. "It is an industry fact."
It seems that as gasoline prices have gone up, the quality has gone down.
In 2004, Marathon Petroleum Co. discovered that it had sold gasoline to thousands of motorists in the Louisville, Ky., market that had high levels of elemental sulfur, causing damage to the gasoline sensors. It paid out about $500 per vehicle to motorists whose fuel-sending units were affected.
A Marathon spokeswoman said the problem was caused by a refinery that had undergone modifications that caused unusually high levels of elemental sulfur. At the time, there was no industry specification for the chemical, but since then a limit has been placed on elemental sulfur — the amount of sulfur that gas can contain.
In another case, a class-action lawsuit against refiner Motiva Enterprises resulted in a multimillion-dollar settlement for consumers who purchased gasoline at any of hundreds of stations in Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama in 2004. The gasoline was marketed under a variety of retail names.
The decline in gasoline quality prompted four major auto manufacturers to come together about two years ago and set a standard themselves for so-called "top tier" gasoline. The group noted that since the EPA established additive standards in 1995 the average level of detergent had slipped by 50%.
At the time, the federal government set the quality standard below what many in the industry were actually producing, causing a drop rather than an increase in quality. It is a prime example of lousy government regulation.
The auto makers — BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyotaset stringent requirements on detergent additives that would help control engine deposits, both those that accumulate inside and outside the combustion chamber. So, the additives help keep fuel injectors clean and control carbon deposits on valves.
A cleaner engine theoretically runs better and more efficiently than a dirty engine, reducing fuel consumption and pollutants. The retailers that meet the specification include many household names such as Chevron and Shell, but also many smaller brands such as Aloha Petroleum and Jiffy Mart. You can get more information about gasoline that qualifies under the program at http://www.toptiergas.com .
What do you do if you are stung by bad gas that has broken your fuel-sending unit? Before you go to the high expense of replacing the unit, you might try an additive. Late last year, Chevron introduced an additive called Techron Concentrate Plus that is formulated to clean the sulfur deposits from the fuel sending units.
Most sending units use a strip of silver or silver palladium to transmit electrical signals to the dashboard. Only a few luxury brands use gold, rather than silver.
The sulfur in gasoline can contaminate the silver or silver palladium and the Chevron concentrate is designed to remove it in one tank of treatment, Cushing said. A bottle for a 20-gallon tank costs about $10. It is sold at most auto parts stores and big discount stores. (Although Chevron puts Techron in its gasoline, the gasoline does not contain the ingredient that cleans the fuel sending units, Cushing said.)
Chevron is not the only company that markets an additive to clean fuel sensor valves. When Marathon encountered its problem with bad gas, it gave out free samples of Valvoline's SynPower Complete Fuel System additive. It is also marketing MaxLife Fuel System Cleaner, which Marathon said cleans and restores sensors.
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Ralph Vartabedian can be reached at ralph.vartabedian
@latimes.com.
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firstmb
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
Woflgang, Thanks for posting the article.
I just filed a compalint with Phillips 66/Conoco -Fuel Specialist, they are going to investigate the sulphur content and get back.
Once again, thanks.
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rudeney
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
Georges ML350 - 5/5/2006 9:24 AM Some time ago I put a post on the "other" site regarding a problematic fuel guage, but I will continue it here, as I suspect that this will be my new home. After 4 attempts by MB to rectify the problem, which included 2 system resets, new sender and some other attempted fixes, the problem was finally found to be in the instrument cluster. 2 weeks have gone by now, 2 fuel fills, and it appears to be opperating correctly. I appears that advice from the other site, which said that the problem is quite likley in the instrument cluster turned out to be correct. Cheers, George. :)
I know I recall discussing this “somewhere else” but I can’t recall right now so I’ll mention it again. ;-)
My ML developed a problem early on in its life where the fuel gauge would not indicate a change in volume after refilling. I would let it get down to below ¼ of a tank, then fill the tank full, but the gauge would still show ¼. As I drove, the gauge would actually begin falling, in direct correlation to the number of gallons per mile used. Eventually, the gauge would go to flat empty, even though I knew I had only used a ¼ tank or less of fuel.
I found a temporary solution by “rebooting” the fuel sender. To do this, turn the ignition switch to position 2 with the engine stopped. On the vehicle frame, just ahead of the (USA) driver’s side rear wheel, you will find a multi-pin (4 or 5) connector. Disconnect this, count to three, then reconnect it. This will “reboot” the gauge and start it working again.
In my case, the reboot worked for many months, but I then experienced to inaccurate gauge again. I took the truck in for service under warranty, and both the fuel sender AND the instrument cluster were replaced. This seemed to work for a few months, but then the problem occurred again, solved by the reboot.
After some research, I found that the problem will most likely occur when there is a large change in fuel volume, such as when the tank has very little fuel (less than ¼ tank) and is refilled by being topped-off. There is a logic circuit in the fuel gauge that ignores abrupt or large changes in fuel volume in order to damped any fluctuations due to grade or sloshing. Apparently, when the tank is refilled with an “unusually large” quantity of fuel, the gauge kicks into fail-safe mode. This can be resolved by changing a setting in the instrument cluster that disables the damping logic. The problem is, it will make the gauge operate with a lot of fluctuation, and also, it will not correct indicate the volume of fuel, but instead it will indicate the depth. Since the tank is narrower at the bottom, the last half of depth will be used much more quickly than the first half, according to the gauge.
In my case, I just stopped running the tank so empty when refilling, or, if I do, I just refill until the first “click-off” of the pump. This seems to solve the problem for me. It has bee abut a year since I’ve had to “reboot” my gauge.
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firstmb
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
firstmb - 5/5/2006 2:17 PM
Woflgang, Thanks for posting the article.
I just filed a compalint with Phillips 66/Conoco -Fuel Specialist, they are going to investigate the sulphur content and get back.
Once again, thanks.
Wolfgang- quick update, I filled up tank with COSTCO gas today and the guage started working.... Guage seems to have problem with Phillips 66 gas only... Wonder why, possibly due to high sulfur content?
W163 friends:- hope, I am not hijacking this thread, I do drive ML but W164 and the problem is related to fuel guage...
Edited by firstmb 5/5/2006 8:02 PM
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Wolfgang
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
firstmb - 5/5/2006 5:01 PM
Wolfgang- quick update, I filled up tank with COSTCO gas today and the guage started working.... Guage seems to have problem with Phillips 66 gas only... Wonder why, possibly due to high sulfur content?
W163 friends:- hope, I am not hijacking this thread, I do drive ML but W164 and the problem is related to fuel guage...
firstmb, Phillips should be fine since they are a Top Tier gas supplier who should have less than 48 ppm sulfur in the gas.
Maybe they had a bad batch or some such due to the recent switch to summer gas. Or other gremlins are hiding somewhere.
http://www.toptiergas.com/
Edited by Wolfgang 5/5/2006 9:12 PM
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Georges ML350
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
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| RE: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
Whilst I am happy that MB finally fixed the problem ( I should not speak too soon), it is very irritating to continually have
to take the car in, and obviously leave it there.
On the last occasion, it was there for 2 days, whilst they waited for parts to arrive from Melbourne, Vic. You see, here in Australia, this is the main spare parts warehouse / despatch centre.
OK, the problem here was not serious, but surely MB must realise that 4 visits for the rectification of one problem is not good for customer relations.
Anyway, I still like my MB.
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samhmbz
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
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| RE: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
rudeney - 5/5/2006 2:37 PM
I took the truck in for service under warranty, and both the fuel sender AND the instrument cluster were replaced. This seemed to work for a few months, but then the problem occurred again
Do you have the part number of the instrument cluster the dealer installed ?
Sam |
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jengel111
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
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| Re: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
I have been having this problem for a year or so now and kept looking for solutions to the problem short of getting it fixed by replacing the fuel sending unit and/or the instrument cluster at a cost of approximately $700 - $1000.
Someone posted that you need to pull the fuse for the instrument cluster. The appropriate fuse box is located in the passenger foot well to right. Rather than opening the fuse box and pulling it at with the key in position no. 2 it finally occured to me there is a very cheap and simple way to bypass all these expenses and the trouble. You simply install a re-set switch so any time you fill up and the gauge keeps showing empty you turn the key into position no. 2 - flip the switch off and on once - and the gauge is reset. You need to remember that most of the time it is the fuel gauge and not the sending unit as my MB shop told me.
Here is how it's done:
Pull fuse no. 5.
Pull fuse holder - this is done by pressing the lower part of the fuse holder upward and then pulling on it.
It will come out attached to a red wire - the black wire is attached to the fuse holder base - you don't need to mess with that.
Cut the red wire so you can attach two longer wires which you can thread to a convenient position in the driver foot well.
Connect the wires to a toggle switch.
Install the switch and you are done. I installed it right next to the drive foot well vent. There is a hard rubber plate into which you can easily drill a hole for the switch.
Good luck you all. |
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wdbell
New user
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location:
Vehicle(s):
Posts: 1
| RE: FUEL GUAGE FINALLY FIXED - NO MORE DEMONS
Hi thanks for this info on reset of fuel guage
Can you confirm that the reset process is same for W164 320d. I have a faulty fuel gauge, sits on empty. distance to empty shows ---. I have tried refilling a number of times but no change. I want to perform checks and resets before moving onto the more costly replacement of sender units. I am very interested in the reset process via the wiring harness.
there appears to be alot of info on the reset on the W163.....but not so much on the W164.
Many thanks. |
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