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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| 40K Mile Transmission Service
MB now wants a fluid and filter change at 40K miles on the 7G-Tronic (722.9) transmission.
I checked with my dealer and was quoted $499.00, of which $287.50 was labor. Sure seems like a lot for 6 liters of ATF, a filter and about an hour of work.
It's really a shame that they've redesigned these things so that it can only be filled with a special adapter through the drain hole in the bottom of the pan. |
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cmitch
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Ala-Tenn
Vehicle(s): 2002 ML320, 2005 S430 4Matic, 2010 F150 Super Crew
Posts: 3412
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
I guess they have no dip stick pipe, either.
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
cmitch - 7/23/2008 10:29 AM
I guess they have no dip stick pipe, either.
Nope |
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GwagenLover
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Winston Salem, NC USA 27104
Vehicle(s): 2016 G550 & 2016 GLE350
Posts: 475
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
So Dutch, What method of changing this fluid do you have in mind?
Seems to me that when one switches from filling to plugging, there is going to be a mess without a one way adapter of some sort.
Got anything in mind? Found such an animal?
The pump should be no problem. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
GwagenLover - 8/12/2008 11:06 AM
So Dutch, What method of changing this fluid do you have in mind?
Seems to me that when one switches from filling to plugging, there is going to be a mess without a one way adapter of some sort.
Got anything in mind? Found such an animal?
The pump should be no problem.
There is a stand pipe on the drain hole that has to be knocked out with a drift to get it to drain completely. The pan, then needs to be removed to replace the stand pipe and the filter. An excess of 1 liter is pumped back in from the drain hole with an adapter. The tranny is then cycled and the excess ATF is allowed to drain at 40°C (not very warm, btw). The plug is replaced; and you're good to go.
My Indie has made an adapter to handle it. Also, and this is important, MB has determined that the currently approved ATF for the 7G-Tronic is no longer any good for that transmission; and can only be used in the older 5-speeds. There is a new fluid, Page Number designation and P/N in the works. They have not yet even notified the MBUSA dealers with a DTB yet. Following is a quote from another forum by someone who knows:
Due to many 722.9 issues MB has changed the spec on that fluid!
They issued a "world-wide" bulletin May 21 2008 that the use of 3353 (spec 236.12) should be limited to 722.6 transmissions. They also recommend that all 722.9 transmissions with unresolved issues be changed over to the new spec 236.14.
the fluid will have use ATF 4134 or ATF 134 as that spec.
The bulletin hasn't been released thru MBNA as of yet but they have 50K liters in stock under number 001-989-68-03-10, both Fuchs & Shell (DSH) have contracts to produce that fluid. |
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lkchris
Veteran
Date registered: Nov 2006
Location: Albuquerque
Vehicle(s): '07 GL320CDI, '06 E320CDI
Posts: 144
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
Very interesting. Here's how this reads at the Fuchs website: TITAN ATF 4134
| High-performance ATF specially developed to optimise shifting performance of Mercedes-Benz automatic transmissions.
| MB-APPROVAL 236.14
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
lkchris - 8/13/2008 1:33 PM
Very interesting. Here's how this reads at the Fuchs website: TITAN ATF 4134
| High-performance ATF specially developed to optimise shifting performance of Mercedes-Benz automatic transmissions.
| MB-APPROVAL 236.14
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According to my contact in Vance, it's supposed to run cooler than the 3353 ATF. That might help the hard 2->1 downshift I experience, which is always worse on hot days when the engine and tranny are also quite hot.
I'll be switching to it this coming Wednesday. I'll let you know. |
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GwagenLover
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Winston Salem, NC USA 27104
Vehicle(s): 2016 G550 & 2016 GLE350
Posts: 475
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
In reference to your mention of a stand pipe that has to be removed before the tranny can be drained.
I'm curious as to why the stand pipe is in place.
Is it to keep the pumped fluid from running back out of the fill hole as it is being refilled?
And another question that is tied to the draining....is the torque converter drained during this operation, if so how? |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
GwagenLover - 8/18/2008 7:39 AM
In reference to your mention of a stand pipe that has to be removed before the tranny can be drained.
I'm curious as to why the stand pipe is in place.
Is it to keep the pumped fluid from running back out of the fill hole as it is being refilled?
And another question that is tied to the draining....is the torque converter drained during this operation, if so how?
The stand pipe is to maintain the level in the transmission, and the torque converter is not drained. |
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GwagenLover
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Winston Salem, NC USA 27104
Vehicle(s): 2016 G550 & 2016 GLE350
Posts: 475
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
Was there any place on the bottom pan to drill and tap a hole for a fill plug that would be above the stand pipe? |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
GwagenLover - 8/18/2008 5:42 PM
Was there any place on the bottom pan to drill and tap a hole for a fill plug that would be above the stand pipe?
No idea, but I doubt it. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| New ATF
Changed filter and ATF to the newest ATF 4134 this morning at my Indie's shop. We only did a single drain and refill (at $37/liter X 6), so it's now about half and half. It's really too early to tell for sure, but it does appear to shift much smoother. (Placebo effect?) Time will tell.
The refill procedure is a very serious pita; and I am curious as to how the dealers can even properly follow the WIS instructions. There is a stand pipe inside the pan clipped on the drain plug. You add back 1 liter more than you drained with a special adapter through the drain plug. Then run the engine/tranny and move through P-R-N-D a few times.
With the engine idling in Park and the STAR Diagnosis System connected to measure the internal transmission temperature, you allow anything that will drain out over the stand pipe at 40°C. There is a very strong warning that, if the temperature is above 40°C, too much will drain out.
The big problem is that the transmission temperature scoots right past 40°C when you're moving it through the gears; and it ends up at about 68°C. There's no way to stop the temperature rise. How do you know when to stop it from draining at that temperature so that you don't drain out too much!?!! We guessed. Hopefully, it's close enough. It does seem to drive OK.
Engineers! Arrgghhh!!!! |
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cmitch
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Ala-Tenn
Vehicle(s): 2002 ML320, 2005 S430 4Matic, 2010 F150 Super Crew
Posts: 3412
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
This thread, alone, scares me away from the W164. I wonder if the GL is the same way?
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03-Gwagen
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Vehicle(s): CLK63 Black Series, 2018 G63, 2016 GLE300d
Posts: 888
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
cmitch - 8/20/2008 10:34 PM
This thread, alone, scares me away from the W164.
Ditto.
I was thinking the same thing. Keep the old cars that we can maintain ourselves. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
cmitch - 8/20/2008 10:34 PM
I wonder if the GL is the same way?
Yes, it is. |
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Wolfgang
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
MBUSA issued a bulletin now, and they recommend the new ATF for both 722.6 and 722.9.
Date: August 13, 2008 Order No.: S-B-00.40/89
SUBJECT: MY- All, Models All with Transmission 722.6 or 722.9
Operating Fluid Specification Changes for Automatic Transmission
5-speed automatic transmission 722.6
Only use the transmission oils outlined in specification for operating fluids sheet 236.14.
See WIS document: BB.00.40-p-0236-14a.
7-speed automatic transmission 722.9
Only use the transmission oils outlined in specification sheet 236.14
See WIS document: BB.00.40-p-0236-14a.
Transfer case in Models 164 and 251
Only use transmission oils outlined in specification sheet 236.12.
Here's a pdf:
Edited by Wolfgang 8/25/2008 2:35 PM
Attachments
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 ATF.pdf (39KB - 57 downloads)
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
Thanks Wolfgang!
Would you happen to have a copy of the WIS Document: BB.00.40-p-0236-14a ? |
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Wolfgang
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
DUTCH - 8/25/2008 4:22 PM
Thanks Wolfgang!
Would you happen to have a copy of the WIS Document: BB.00.40-p-0236-14a ?
You are welcome, DUTCH. Here's the doc:
 (BB.00.40-p-0236-14a.jpg)
Attachments
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BB.00.40-p-0236-14a.jpg (59KB - 49 downloads)
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9965
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
Wolfgang - 8/25/2008 11:28 PM
DUTCH - 8/25/2008 4:22 PM
Thanks Wolfgang!
Would you happen to have a copy of the WIS Document: BB.00.40-p-0236-14a ?
You are welcome, DUTCH. Here's the doc:
Thanks again, Wolfgang. I was hoping that document was a re-write of the drain and refill procedure. The current one is impossible to do by the book (drain excess at 40°C) unless one allows the vehicle to cool down over night; and most garages would not want to tie up a list that long - and then it's like trying to shoot at a moving target.
The design of the fill point and procedure has to be one of the poorest engineering designs I've ever seen. |
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Wolfgang
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: 40K Mile Transmission Service
DUTCH - 8/26/2008 4:23 AM
Thanks again, Wolfgang. I was hoping that document was a re-write of the drain and refill procedure. The current one is impossible to do by the book (drain excess at 40°C) unless one allows the vehicle to cool down over night; and most garages would not want to tie up a list that long - and then it's like trying to shoot at a moving target.
The design of the fill point and procedure has to be one of the poorest engineering designs I've ever seen.
That doc only specs the 236.14 fluids.
Mercedes master mechanic Tim Eckart developed a method to change fluids, which seems to be pretty popular:
http://www.automatikoelwechselsystem.de/
He's also working on an english page, which is expected in September:
http://www.automatikoelwechselsystem.de/automatic.html
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