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Generator questions
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Posted 7/11/2006 4:20 PM
NorthseaRoughneck
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Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500
Generator questions

Hey there,

About four hours ago my generator gave in and after restarting the car (jumpstart) I rushed home so I could work on it.

As I had this problem before (2002) I was wondering whether or not four years is a normal time for a generator (brushes and maybe regulator) to die? Back then I had it completely overhauled including new bearings etc. I don't use excessive electrical appliances only radio/cd changer and a phone charger but I am not quite sure if that has got anything to do with it. I do drive with lights on all the time though.

I was reading through some posts (here and on BW) and I came across some values that I should measure over the battery. Both with the engine off and on. Guess I was a bit too quick as I already have the genny out without checking any of these values That's alright though as I will put new brushes and a regulator in anyway now that I have got the thing out.

As said, last time I had it overhauled but this time I would like to do it myself to gain some experience. Anybody here who is willing to give me a couple of pointers what to look for? I don't think I will need to change bearings again ... or would that still be a wise thing to do?

Thanks in advance,

Oh before I forget, why do things always break down when you're (far) away from home and you forgot to bring your toolkit ??? Suggestions anybody?

Regards,

NorthseaRoughneck
#30450
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Author
Posted 7/11/2006 4:24 PM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
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2000
RE: Generator questions

Since you have it out already, remove the regulator and check for continuity between the two slip rings that the brushes press against. The bearing can be checked by hand. If smooth and not loose you are good to go. The diode packs can be checked, but I don't have the notes on doing that here.
#30451 - in reply to #30450
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Posted 7/12/2006 2:01 AM
NorthseaRoughneck
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Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500
RE: Generator questions

Thanks Alan, I'll give it a try today
#30573 - in reply to #30451
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Posted 7/12/2006 10:24 AM
79percent
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Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Remscheid / Germany
Vehicle(s): 300 GE
Posts: 537
500
RE: Generator questions

well, maybe your ABS problem is related to the Alternator....:rollseyes:
#30600 - in reply to #30450
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Author
Posted 7/12/2006 12:09 PM
NorthseaRoughneck
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500
RE: Generator questions

How do you mean Klaus?

That my ABS light stays on due to a faulty genny?
#30617 - in reply to #30600
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Author
Posted 7/12/2006 12:26 PM
gwagen460swb
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Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Vehicle(s): 280GE SWB, Toyota Highlander, BMW530i, RR HSE
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Re: Generator questions

Funny thing; I just now opened this topic to see what it was all about. As it turns out, I am experiencing a similar issue. I am having my regulator replaced. There were other suggestions in my "Mechanic Pulling My Leg?" topic.

My issues seem to occur on Sundays or national/public holidays when no one is open. Like you, I do not have many electrical accessories to run. All I have on is my CD player/stereo. I do not even drive my G at night or on rainy days.
#30622 - in reply to #30450
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Posted 7/12/2006 1:17 PM
NorthseaRoughneck
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Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500
Re: Generator questions

gwagen460swb - 7/12/2006 6:26 PM

Funny thing; I just now opened this topic to see what it was all about. As it turns out, I am experiencing a similar issue. I am having my regulator replaced. There were other suggestions in my "Mechanic Pulling My Leg?" topic.

My issues seem to occur on Sundays or national/public holidays when no one is open. Like you, I do not have many electrical accessories to run. All I have on is my CD player/stereo. I do not even drive my G at night or on rainy days.

a) Are you saying that your ABS light stayed ON as well? That you have found out it was the regulator?

b) But WHY does it always occur at times when you least expect it?

c) You're missing out Gwagen460swb I do drive it at night and/or rainy/snowy days





(Denmark2005_0026a.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Denmark2005_0026a.jpg (183KB - 3 downloads)
#30628 - in reply to #30622
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Posted 7/12/2006 1:26 PM
79percent
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Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Remscheid / Germany
Vehicle(s): 300 GE
Posts: 537
500
RE: Generator questions

Hello Rick,

 I dont know if you have access to the WIS online now. If so look on document in group 42.30. Document DH02.01-G-F000-23X tells you on step 3 to check the Alternator on clamp 61 (D+). Check when engine runs if between point 15 and 20 (on the MB Test and diagnosis tool) if a Voltage of 11-14 Volt is present.

If not, then check Alternator and or connections to it.

That was my comment regarding your alternator and ABS related issues.

  

 

#30629 - in reply to #30617
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Posted 7/12/2006 1:47 PM
NorthseaRoughneck
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Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500
RE: Generator questions

Thanks Klaus,

I've found the document in the online WIS. Tried to 'print' it to a PDF file but I am not quite sure how that works.

Hopefully replacing the brushes and regulator will solve my problems.

I'll report back to the forum.

Regards,

Rick
#30633 - in reply to #30629
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Posted 7/12/2006 5:13 PM
NorthseaRoughneck
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500
RE: Generator questions

Ok, I opened up the generator/alternator. This is how I found it ...

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After loosening the black square thing (Regulator??) on the left I found the following ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The gasket/seal was already loose ... not good I suppose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Also, one of the carbon brushes was lying loose inside ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Of the brushes, the loose one is approx. 1 cm. the other one is definitely longer. Time to change out I suppose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is this a one piece part? Carbon brush set and regulator? According to EPC these are loose items but I can't get the other one out nor can I put the loose one back in and make it stay in?

Should I replace this 'HUCO' regulator for a BOSCH one?

I do realize that I've just sent out a few pictures and asked a lot of questions about a simple piece of kit (though not for me as electronics are not my ball game) but I would very much like to learn more about this sort of thing.

Please advice,

NorthseaRoughneck

#30667 - in reply to #30450
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Posted 7/12/2006 7:52 PM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
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Pictures

Your pictures and avatar are linked to your harddrive, rather than to the P3 server. Only you will see them.
#30703 - in reply to #30667
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Posted 7/13/2006 1:53 AM
NorthseaRoughneck
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500
RE: Pictures

AlanMcR - 7/13/2006 1:52 AM

Your pictures and avatar are linked to your harddrive, rather than to the P3 server. Only you will see them.


I have been trying to upload my profile image for ages now but I can't get it to work.

These pictures of the generator, should I just upload them in the albums section? If so, I don't have a clue how to link 'em back to a thread.

Anybody who can help me out with this?

TIA ... regards,

NorthseaRoughneck



I just looked at my messages without being logged on Never realized that it came out like that ... sorry guys.



Edited by NorthseaRoughneck 7/13/2006 2:00 AM
#30814 - in reply to #30703
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Posted 7/13/2006 4:27 AM
NorthseaRoughneck
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Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500
Generator questions ... this time with pictures

Ok, I opened up the generator/alternator. This is how I found it ...

After loosening the black square thing (Regulator??) on the left I found the following ...

The gasket/seal was already loose ... not good I suppose.

Also, one of the carbon brushes was lying loose inside ...

Of the brushes, the loose one is approx. 1 cm. the other one is definitely longer. Time to change out I suppose.

Is this a one piece part? Carbon brush set and regulator? According to EPC these are loose items but I can't get the other one out nor can I put the loose one back in and make it stay in?

Should I replace this 'HUCO' regulator for a BOSCH one?

I do realize that I've just sent out a few pictures and asked a lot of questions about a simple piece of kit (though not for me as electronics are not my ball game) but I would very much like to learn more about this sort of thing.

Please advice,

NorthseaRoughneck



(Alternator01.JPG)



(Alternator02.JPG)



(Alternator03.JPG)



(Alternator04.JPG)



(Alternator05.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments Alternator01.JPG (215KB - 3 downloads)
Attachments Alternator02.JPG (232KB - 4 downloads)
Attachments Alternator03.JPG (167KB - 3 downloads)
Attachments Alternator04.JPG (244KB - 2 downloads)
Attachments Alternator05.JPG (176KB - 3 downloads)
#30830 - in reply to #30703
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Posted 7/13/2006 8:48 AM
gwagen460swb
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Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Vehicle(s): 280GE SWB, Toyota Highlander, BMW530i, RR HSE
Posts: 513
500
Re: Generator questions

I was at my mechanic's shop yesterday and watched him replace my regulator. My old regulator and bushings still looked good. Then he put the voltmeter to the battery. Output is still 12V or below rather than the 14V. I am going to call Steve at Eurotruck this morning to figure out what else could be causing the low voltage read.

Anyways, the old regulator was a Bosch. Replacement was a Bosch also. On the opposite side of the one piece regulator with bushings, what is that square thing with a wire (on the right in pic1 and on left in pic4)?

To answer your questions:
1. I have no ABS on a 1982 280GE
2. Luckily this was only the second time I had an issue with my G, which coincidentally was on a Sunday (same as a public holiday).
3. In the summer we have an issue with stupid insects that like to commit suicide on your front (windshield, lights, grill, etc...). And I do not like dirty water splashing up on my G in rain. Snow is hardly an issue in the southern US. In other words, I like to keep a nice finish.

#30841 - in reply to #30450
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Posted 7/13/2006 10:10 AM
dai
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Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
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Re: Generator questions

I have had nothing but bad luck with those rectangular shaped regulators. The OEM units have a round center on the back of the brushholder and are pretty bullettproof. Spin the shaft by hand and feel the bearings. Do a continuity test as Alan suggested. If the bearings feel good and things check out, slap a new Bosch brushholder/regulator assembly in there and you should be back in action. Avoid the style of regulator you took out of there. I have had them fail three days after installing them and there tend to be no returns on electrical items. The last one of those came on an alternator rebuild job I had done on my wife's wagon. It failed two days into a trip 700 miles from home in the mountains. I had to buy a complete alternator to get the brushholder out of it to fix the problem.

-Dai
#30866 - in reply to #30629
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Posted 7/13/2006 10:11 AM
AlanMcR
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Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
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loose brush

Much better with the pictures!

Well, alternator05.jpg shows a loose brush. That copper braid is supposed to be soldered to a terminal on the regulator. That is the source of the problem. You could solder it back on, but replacement of the regulator/brush combination seems prudent.
#30867 - in reply to #30830
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Posted 7/13/2006 10:47 AM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
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Finish

gwagen460swb - 7/13/2006 8:48 AM

3. In the summer we have an issue with stupid insects that like to commit suicide on your front (windshield, lights, grill, etc...). And I do not like dirty water splashing up on my G in rain. Snow is hardly an issue in the southern US. In other words, I like to keep a nice finish.



Put a Zaino finish on it. You'll be very much amazed.
#30873 - in reply to #30841
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Posted 7/13/2006 10:57 AM
NorthseaRoughneck
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500
Re: Generator questions

Hey Aaron,

Thanks for your input. I never checked what type of G you were driving when I asked you about ABS ... sorry 'bout that.

The 'square thing' you asked about is called the condenser. I've yet to find out what that thing does

I didn't mean to 'attack' you when I said you were missing out. I mean, I am also pretty keen on keeping a nice finish but sometimes my G does get dirty. During my last road trip (Andorra and the Spanish Pyrenees) I encountered quite a few of the same 'stupid insects' you were referring to





(Stupid insects.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Stupid insects.jpg (250KB - 5 downloads)
#30876 - in reply to #30841
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Posted 7/13/2006 11:05 AM
NorthseaRoughneck
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Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500
RE: loose brush

Thanks Alan,

I will replace the regulator for a new one (including the carbon brushes).

Just one more thing though, that loose gasket ... can I put that back in correctly without opening up the complete alternator? If not, will unscrewing the four screws on the pulley side of the alternator be sufficient to get access to that gasket or would I have to disassemble the complete kit?

Regards,

Rick
#30880 - in reply to #30867
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Posted 7/13/2006 11:07 AM
NorthseaRoughneck
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Date registered: May 2006
Location: Berghem, the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 300GD SWB - 300GD LWB
Posts: 538
500
Re: Generator questions

Thanks for the tip Dai ... I'll get the Bosch type!

Regards,

Rick
#30881 - in reply to #30866
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