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Luky
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia, EU
Vehicle(s): 300GE LWB auto, E320CDI 4M, VW Polo Classic 1.6
Posts: 1062
| Something special?
http://cgi.ebay.de/Mercedes-300-GD-300GD-Prototyp-G-Modell-460-463-... |
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hus55
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: north cyprus,lapta.
Vehicle(s): 300GDS, G300 LONG,300GDT CLK55 AMG CAB.
Posts: 2230
| Re: Something special?
anyone translate german?sounds an interesting vehicle. |
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Luky
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia, EU
Vehicle(s): 300GE LWB auto, E320CDI 4M, VW Polo Classic 1.6
Posts: 1062
| Re: Something special?
As I understand, it is a W463 testbed, the seller claims one of 3 build. It has, the same engine as the W463 300GD(OM603?) an all-time 4x4, 3 electro-pneumatic difflocks, ABS and 4speed automatic transmission(W4A028 722.394/6?). The front part of the vehicle was made to look like a W460 to avoid attention. |
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79percent
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Remscheid / Germany
Vehicle(s): 300 GE
Posts: 537
| Re: Something special?
hus55 - 10/7/2006 9:36 AM anyone translate german?sounds an interesting vehicle. Sure can, basically saying that this is one of three Prototype G's with 463 technology in it (permanent 4x4 etc). Be carefull, try to get spare parts. Should be almost impossible to get the right parts with first shot. PROTOTYPE: If it doesnt worked out well, thex changed it later. So 460 wont fit, 463 wont fit and the 461 is also different. If you are a owner of a service garage or a collector you may want to buy this, otherwhise let it go. Klaus |
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460332
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Europe
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Something special?
Why should there be a problem with spare parts??ANY parts can be delivered by Mercedes even thoug the car haven't a chassi number. All parts used are standard Mercedes parts to the OM603 engine (which in fact has an engine number), some 463 body parts and the rest is 460. 461 is the military production series, which, as well, use standard Mercedes parts, except for special military parts.... |
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79percent
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Remscheid / Germany
Vehicle(s): 300 GE
Posts: 537
| Re: Something special?
Hello Rob, Try your luck. Having a 460 chassi number go out and order a 463 Tranny. Sure you will get one, but how do you get the information on the right part that is used in the Prototype car. The Problem is not getting the part, the Problem is how to find out what part you'll need. We have had a very first M-Class prototype in our Hands and one of my friend bought it. Everytime he went to a Dealer he had been told, that Part is not in use for your M. RGDS Klaus |
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hus55
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: north cyprus,lapta.
Vehicle(s): 300GDS, G300 LONG,300GDT CLK55 AMG CAB.
Posts: 2230
| Re: Something special?
I see the confusion has already started!! |
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Luky
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia, EU
Vehicle(s): 300GE LWB auto, E320CDI 4M, VW Polo Classic 1.6
Posts: 1062
| Re: Something special?
I think some parts in a prototype can be completley different than in a normal car, just because during the testing they found out there is some problem, and so they fixed it in the normal cars. |
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Maxwell Smart
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Something special?
Luky - 10/7/2006 5:53 PM
I think some parts in a prototype can be completley different than in a normal car, just because during the testing they found out there is some problem, and so they fixed it in the normal cars.
I would second that. I am sure there are parts on it that only exist because they were handmade in a workshop and have not gone into production as the design changed from the prototype. (as they do...)
Just look at the lowerhalf of the console with the diff lock switches and between the seats with the high/low selector. That's not a 460/461 or 463 console. |
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460332
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Europe
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Something special?
Yes, might be som electronics to a ML that could be a problem..., lots of electronics on a 463 prottype, or?
Still, the OM603 engine, 460 chassi, 463 transmission, front- and rear -axles, wheels, steering, etc are standard MB products with production numbers that any mediocre MB shop assistant could locate from other MB part lists. Will non-technical GW owners that are lightyears from knowing what vehicle they posess be left over with "this car is not on our list ...", by MB shop assistants?. Has DC any official statements, like from the SSasangyoung case when they changed the MB parts that no service is provided? What about those who rebuild GW, modify frontaxles or swap engines, don't they get any support when consult MB for service or spare parts? Of course, if you cannot figure out if it was Koito, Lucas, Bosch or Hella that supplied some switches or control lighta on a 16 years old vehicle the thing has to be wrecked! |
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mortinson
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Madrid, España
Vehicle(s): '98 G300TD LWB, '98 E300TD Saloon
Posts: 1355
| Re: Something special?
79percent - 10/7/2006 10:16 AM
hus55 - 10/7/2006 9:36 AM anyone translate german?sounds an interesting vehicle. Sure can, basically saying that this is one of three Prototype G's with 463 technology in it (permanent 4x4 etc). Be carefull, try to get spare parts. Should be almost impossible to get the right parts with first shot. PROTOTYPE: If it doesnt worked out well, thex changed it later. So 460 wont fit, 463 wont fit and the 461 is also different. If you are a owner of a service garage or a collector you may want to buy this, otherwhise let it go. Klaus
Klaus,
I think you're being a tad too harsh here... this is basically a complete 463 chassis with a modified 460 bodywork bolted in. I am sure that as far as axles, engine, gearbox, transfercase, etc it's pure 463 so you just need to get the VIN from an early 463 300 GD -like mine- to source your chassis parts and a late 460 300 GD to source your bodywork parts.
To me this is clearly a case of "it does what is says in the tin", though I don't believe the claim that there are only three of these.
For starters, this is clearly not a FAKE. I mean, If I were to fake a 463, I would start with the headlamp surrounds, the plastic grille and the front fenders, wouldn't I? And this one has got all the important signs, like:
1) The ABS pump in the engine bay (no 460 was fitted with ABS)
2) The 463-transfer case (look at the perfectly standing-up-type gearlever)
3) The 463-exhaust system, with the exit pipe in front of the rear left wheel
4) The switches for the three electrically operated diff locks
5) The air inlet grille in the front left fender
6) The lid for filling the fuel tank is where it should be in a 463
7) Front and rear bumpers (yeah, anyone could have fitted these but they are su inferior to those fitted to the 460 that fitting them doesn't make sense).
But going back to the vendor's claim that, to his knowledge "were just three test Gs made" to test the technic of the 463, I attach pictures of three other such pre-production 463s (a 230 GE, another 300 GD and another unknown G) which have all the same signs as this one. The 230GE is owned by an Italian member of the "older" forum to whom I apologise for steaing the pictures.
So definitely one of very few pre-production 463s.
Edited by mortinson 10/8/2006 12:50 PM
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mortinson
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Madrid, España
Vehicle(s): '98 G300TD LWB, '98 E300TD Saloon
Posts: 1355
| RE: Something special?
The link is now dead (?) |
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Arnd
Regular
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Germany
Vehicle(s): 280GE, 300TE
Posts: 85
| Re: Something special?
Uhm ... nowadays you wont be able anymore to buy a DC-Prototype.
A while a ago Schmude had one of the later ML-Prototypes for making the firbe-body for the new Dakar-ML ... after finishing they had to return the ML for destruction by DC ... what a shame ... |
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VonEpp
W124 Host
Date registered: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle(s): w114, w124 & w460
Posts: 357
| Re: Something special?
Sorry this is a bit out of the original context of the post, but what size tires would they be on that red 230GE?
They are proportional to a 31x1050x15 by the look of the rubber, but the wheels look like 16s?
Please excuse my ignorance on the topic of 4x4 Mercs, I'm still a newbie here but I'm learning. |
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gwagen460swb
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Vehicle(s): 280GE SWB, Toyota Highlander, BMW530i, RR HSE
Posts: 513
| RE: Something special?
mortinson - 10/8/2006 2:08 PM The link is now dead (?) If you are referring to that red SWB G, I see the same pics on the clubgwagen.com site. Just click on 'Friends' at the top. Then click Stefano on the left column. I always liked that G. With all the discussion on these types of Gs concerning parts and such, I can probably think why I have not seen one of these in the U.S. Can anyone verify if we have these 460/463 type Gs in the U.S. for SWB, LWB, and Cabrio? The only one I can think of is a grey 1985 LWB I keep seeing popping up every now and then on eBay from Texas. But I am not even certain if this one from Texas fits in this category or is simply a rebuild with a 463 body. I really do not know. Anyone else know which G I am referring to and want to comment? |
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mortinson
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Madrid, España
Vehicle(s): '98 G300TD LWB, '98 E300TD Saloon
Posts: 1355
| Re: Something special?
VonEpp - 10/10/2006 11:57 AM
Sorry this is a bit out of the original context of the post, but what size tires would they be on that red 230GE?
They are proportional to a 31x1050x15 by the look of the rubber, but the wheels look like 16s?
Please excuse my ignorance on the topic of 4x4 Mercs, I'm still a newbie here but I'm learning.
The wheels on the red G are 7.5J x 16 H2 ET 63 "Atiks", part number 463 401 03 02 or B6 647 00 70, as fitted as standard to all Gs from 1994 to 1998. But be careful if your're planning to fit these to a 460; in this case you will need spacers. The red G in the picture surely does not need them precisely because it uses 463 series axles.
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VonEpp
W124 Host
Date registered: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle(s): w114, w124 & w460
Posts: 357
| Re: Something special?
Thanks for the tip, great info. Unfortunately the likelyhood of finding a set of those wheels in Australia is very slim - fortunately I'm very happy with the 16" rims I've got.
I would like an idea on tire size there though - they suit the car perfectly. |
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mortinson
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Madrid, España
Vehicle(s): '98 G300TD LWB, '98 E300TD Saloon
Posts: 1355
| Re: Something special?
VonEpp - 10/11/2006 11:23 PM
Thanks for the tip, great info. Unfortunately the likelyhood of finding a set of those wheels in Australia is very slim - fortunately I'm very happy with the 16" rims I've got.
I would like an idea on tire size there though - they suit the car perfectly.
And what rims have you got?
I gather that, if they were original to your G and assuming that your G is a 460 -information that I can't see anywhere in either your postings or your profile-, your rims should be 5.5 x 16, in pressed steel or alloy.
(to check what rims you have, I suggest that you check Harald Pietschmann's fantastic website on this matter> http://www.rubicon-trail.com/G-Class/wheels/start.html )
How do you intent to use your G? mainly off-road? If this is the case, I would definitely fit the tyre currently used in my G, a 235/85R16, preferably in a good mud-pattern, such as the BF Goodrich Mud Terrain... |
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VonEpp
W124 Host
Date registered: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle(s): w114, w124 & w460
Posts: 357
| Re: Something special?
I have custom made 16x7 inch alloys. The alloy blank is off-the-shelf, it is then machined to the correct offset, spigot-mount ID and PCD for the wheel studs.
At the moment I am running Cooper Discoverer STs, which are an excellent compromise tire; however all my other 4x4s have used BFG MTs and I will be swapping to these as soon as the tread wears down a bit. Having said this though I have always used 15" wheels therefore my experience with 16" tires sizes is a bit shakey.
235 is what I have at the moment and in my opinion they are just a little too narrow for the terrain I traverse and my driving style - I think a 255 is a slightly better size but I haven't seen a G with them on to confirm what they will look like.
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300GD.JPG (47KB - 13 downloads)
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VonEpp
W124 Host
Date registered: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle(s): w114, w124 & w460
Posts: 357
| Re: Something special?
PS: Thank you for your advice Mortinson. |
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