Welcome Guest. ( logon | register ) | ||||||
|
|
|
| Topic Tools | Message Format |
Author |
| ||
phoenix44 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! Well My weekend away got cut short by my ML... I thought that I had run out of gas the other day, the ML would not start, the gas guage was on reserve, so I add more gas, and she started no problem. Well today, had about half a tank, and it would not start, no CEL, turned over fine, but nothing else. Tried off an on for about 15 min, called roadside assitance, then gave it one last shot...It started. Any Ideas?? | ||
#17074 | |||
Author |
| ||
Marcelc Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! phoenix44 - 5/28/2006 6:45 PM Well My weekend away got cut short by my ML... I thought that I had run out of gas the other day, the ML would not start, the gas guage was on reserve, so I add more gas, and she started no problem. Well today, had about half a tank, and it would not start, no CEL, turned over fine, but nothing else. Tried off an on for about 15 min, called roadside assitance, then gave it one last shot...It started. Any Ideas?? :confuzed: CPS (relatively cheap and easy to change yourself, and if it is not the culprit then you can keep the old one as a spare) or fuel pump related, try searching on the other place. | ||
#17083 - in reply to #17074 | |||
Author |
| ||
pleubner Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Basel, Switzerland Vehicle(s): ML270CDI Brabus-W163,SL55 AMG-R230,ML320 CDI-W164 | RE: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! :biggrin: No don't do that!!!! Rn through the fuel WIS items in the WIS Sticky first! I got some trouble shooting there .... Incorrect fuel guage levels, etc.....
| ||
#17084 - in reply to #17074 | |||
Author |
| ||
phoenix44 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! Marcelc - 5/28/2006 3:31 PM phoenix44 - 5/28/2006 6:45 PM Well My weekend away got cut short by my ML... I thought that I had run out of gas the other day, the ML would not start, the gas guage was on reserve, so I add more gas, and she started no problem. Well today, had about half a tank, and it would not start, no CEL, turned over fine, but nothing else. Tried off an on for about 15 min, called roadside assitance, then gave it one last shot...It started. Any Ideas?? :confuzed: CPS (relatively cheap and easy to change yourself, and if it is not the culprit then you can keep the old one as a spare) or fuel pump related, try searching on the other place. Thanks Marcelc, I did search, and did find the cps issue. I was not clear as to if there would be a cel when the no start occured? | ||
#17087 - in reply to #17083 | |||
Author |
| ||
phoenix44 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! pleubner - 5/28/2006 3:57 PM :biggrin: No don't do that!!!! Rn through the fuel WIS items in the WIS Sticky first! I got some trouble shooting there .... Incorrect fuel guage levels, etc.....
Hey pleubner, I checked out the wis, I did not find the trouble shooting Attachments ---------------- Fuel Guage not registering correctly after refueling.pdf (3KB - 13 downloads) | ||
#17091 - in reply to #17084 | |||
Author |
| ||
pleubner Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Basel, Switzerland Vehicle(s): ML270CDI Brabus-W163,SL55 AMG-R230,ML320 CDI-W164 | RE: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! You were too quick ..... try now ! ... and I got 2 important ones I can't upload! .... email me ! ... and ask the Admin to lift the upload LIMIT for me!
| ||
#17094 - in reply to #17091 | |||
Author |
| ||
phoenix44 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! Administator!!! Please up the upload limit. pleubner has contributed so much and has so much more to offer | ||
#17096 - in reply to #17094 | |||
Author |
| ||
pleubner Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Basel, Switzerland Vehicle(s): ML270CDI Brabus-W163,SL55 AMG-R230,ML320 CDI-W164 | RE: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! done! Doesn't show much except for the location .... Does say however that the SDS is needed when replacing it! Although this must not be needed (self reseting) according to others who have done CPS replacements Here is a DIY to supplement the WIS I posted .... should only take you 5-10 min to replace Crankshaft Position Sensor DIY Since no one volunteered their expert advice on the crankshaft position sensor (CPS) DIY, here it is...hopefully this will help others with what appears to be a common stalling issue in the ML series. I checked NetStar for PO work (done under warranty) and learned the fuel system mod had been done at 29k (now have 48k). So I figured the stalling issue wasn't that. I may be wrong, the CPS was cheaper place to start! I give this job a 1 to 1.5 stars (of 5) difficulty, and maybe a 3 stars for patience. Here it is: 1) Get CPS at dealer, its a VIN specific part. $125 from my local stealer. 2) Tools needed: Socket screwdriver, Good lighting (portable) shop lights, size 8 outside torx socket, maybe a ratchet and extentions depending on your flexibility, magnetic part retrieval tool (skip this at your peril), bath towel, and long sleeve shirt, step stool, blue thread locker (optional) 3) Open hood and remove engine cover, it just pulls off and on 4) Set work light(s) toward back of engine, lighting behind drivers cylinder head 5) Set bath towel on front of ML to kneel on of your knees will die, wearing long sleeve shirt or your wrists will be cut. 6) Climb up on towel and look behind engine from above and right (see .jpg), finding torx attachment holding your CPS. 7) Remove torx screw and pull out CPS, disconnect one way connector (wiring) 8) Replace with new (leaving wire detached for now) 9) This is the hardest step by far, and requires patience and flexibility. Apply some thread locker and insert screw and start the threads. Tighten with torx on socket screwdriver. This step took about 1/2 hour and numerous dropped screws and retrievals with mag tool. 10) Attach wiring to CPS 11) Reinstall engine cover 12) Clean up tools, towel and lights and everything 13) Drink beer and toast yourself for saving yourself at least $100 and a day of your time dropping off and picking up cars at shop Hope this helps someone in the community. Dickie 00 ML 320
(CPS.JPG) Attachments ---------------- crankshaft position sensor - DIY.pdf (3KB - 8 downloads) crankshaft position sensor - remove&install.pdf (254KB - 8 downloads) CPS.JPG (52KB - 7 downloads) cps - 01.pdf (33KB - 8 downloads) | ||
#17105 - in reply to #17096 | |||
Author |
| ||
pleubner Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Basel, Switzerland Vehicle(s): ML270CDI Brabus-W163,SL55 AMG-R230,ML320 CDI-W164 | testing the CPS Had a tech in Vancouver B.C explain how to test your CPS, if it starts to fail. He said connect to an ohmeter, should read a steady 850-1200 ohms. using an air heat gun, start warming the sensor (not hot,but warm as it's plastic), keeping a steady ohm reading, and it should not change much. Mine started to go up fast to infinity, or just lose a reading. QWhen it cooled down, reading started. Anyone have input for this test procedure? Also, he said if the CSP is suspect, watch the tach needle, as it should not jump when it is in the no start mode of the problem. If the tach needle jumps, it is somthing else, not the CPS. Again, anyone with knowledge about this test as well? ------------------- In the 8 years I been at my tech's MB shop, I NEVER seen a bad CPS from the older MB, such as mine; 92 to 96 S or E class but he says that in the newer car 2001 and on, it gets replaced a lot. It sort of boggles my mind, since it's just a magnet and coil of wire, so what can go bad?? Obviously, the heat must 'melt' the wire coating causing it to open. Bottom line it must be poor quality control! In the old manuals, the TEST for this part is JUST an ohmmeter calling for a 850 - 1200 ohms. No other test. ------------- The tech in Vancouver told me it should be around 1200 ohms. Another thing was to hold it steady and give it a slight tap , and see how far it jumps around before coming back, or if it just gives no reading at all. Mine was sensitive to tapping in certain areas of the sensor, closer to the magnetic end. One time, I had to touch the tip to a metal surface, kind of resetting it to get the ohm reading back I tried testing the wrong new one sent to me, but because it was a diffferent #, it showed about 900 ohms. The correct new one I received today was around 1200 ohms, and as you mentioned, they increase with heat. The old one increased pretty fast around 1200 ohms,went up and up and then just crapped out until it cooled off a little, then read it again, crapped out as soon as the heat was put to it. The new one didn't increase dramatically when heated, just slowly went up. I never heated it much, but it seemed a bit more steady paced, when the old one just bounced right off the scale pretty fast. I am thinking maybe , especially on a warmer/hot day, the increase in temp around the sensor would cause the unit to fail faster, cut in and out more often, longer cool down time as compared to a colder, rainy day, when maybe it wouldn't even crap out at all? Just a thought, since we're dealing with a coil, or wire expanding with heat. I know on our snowmobiles, the CDI unit would do the same when failing, die when hot, reconnect inside and work again when cold, and eventually just die out completely. Tomorrow, I will take it on a drive, 120 km to another city, and back. I will post again what happens, if anything new, as it will be warm out again as well. | ||
#17109 - in reply to #17074 | |||
Author |
| ||
pleubner Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Basel, Switzerland Vehicle(s): ML270CDI Brabus-W163,SL55 AMG-R230,ML320 CDI-W164 | Hopefully it's not this Failure to start: ------------------- I got my car back yesterday, report from dealer indicates following: Carried out test via diagnostic machine, no faults stored. Checked fuses and relays, Checked actual valves, cheked fuel pump activation, removed rear seats and checked connection at Fuel pump, Cheked fuel pump current consumption, cheked crank angle sensor signal. Checked continuity of wires to engine control unit, found connections for crank angle sensor loose on control unit causing engine to cut out. Removed most engine wiring harness and replaced wiring for crank sensor. Insulated wiring harness and refitted all parts, carried out extensive road test. NOT CHEAP at all!!!!
| ||
#17110 - in reply to #17074 | |||
Author |
| ||
AndrewAZ Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! Check the battery first.... | ||
#17134 - in reply to #17074 | |||
Author |
| ||
pleubner Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Basel, Switzerland Vehicle(s): ML270CDI Brabus-W163,SL55 AMG-R230,ML320 CDI-W164 | Re: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! ... and hope that you are not chasing a heap of things like the "fuel sender", "fuel pump" , etc..... DId you add more fuel even though the guage was showing half full? ... If the "fuel sender" is broken , then it might show wrong levels in the guage? .....i.e you think it is half full , when indeed it is empty!
| ||
#17196 - in reply to #17134 | |||
Author |
| ||
phoenix44 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: Hopefully it's not this Had a tech in Vancouver B.C explain how to test your CPS, if it starts to fail. He said connect to an ohmeter, should read a steady 850-1200 ohms. using an air heat gun, start warming the sensor (not hot,but warm as it's plastic), keeping a steady ohm reading, and it should not change much. Mine started to go up fast to infinity, or just lose a reading. QWhen it cooled down, reading started. Anyone have input for this test procedure? Also, he said if the CSP is suspect, watch the tach needle, as it should not jump when it is in the no start mode of the problem. If the tach needle jumps, it is something else, not the CPS. Again, anyone with knowledge about this test as well? ******************************************************************************************* Well my tach needle does not move at all when the no start situation occurs. | ||
#17203 - in reply to #17110 | |||
Author |
| ||
phoenix44 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! AndrewAZ - 5/28/2006 8:39 PM Check the battery first.... The battery seem fine...I am thinking it must be the cps as it does happen when the engine gets hot, and the tach does not move, and if I wait 15+ min. she fires right up. | ||
#17204 - in reply to #17134 | |||
Author |
| ||
pleubner Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Basel, Switzerland Vehicle(s): ML270CDI Brabus-W163,SL55 AMG-R230,ML320 CDI-W164 | RE: Hopefully it's not this phoenix44 - 5/28/2006 12:56 PMHad a tech in Vancouver B.C explain how to test your CPS, if it starts to fail. He said connect to an ohmeter, should read a steady 850-1200 ohms. using an air heat gun, start warming the sensor (not hot,but warm as it's plastic), keeping a steady ohm reading, and it should not change much. Mine started to go up fast to infinity, or just lose a reading. QWhen it cooled down, reading started. Anyone have input for this test procedure? Also, he said if the CSP is suspect, watch the tach needle, as it should not jump when it is in the no start mode of the problem. If the tach needle jumps, it is something else, not the CPS. Again, anyone with knowledge about this test as well? ******************************************************************************************* Well my tach needle does not move at all when the no start situation occurs. *************************************** Ahhh , then it really does sound like the CPS | ||
#17205 - in reply to #17203 | |||
Author |
| ||
ttaleric Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! Correct if the RPM needle jumps it is not the same thing. Bt it has to jump somewhere above 1500RPMS. | ||
#17238 - in reply to #17074 | |||
Author |
| ||
Noodles Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | Re: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! I actually replaced mine for preventitve reasons. The truck is mostly the family hauler and wanted to mitigate as many problems that could leave the wife and kid stranded. I figured at the time with 120k miles on it and hearing of all the failures (not just on MLs) that it was wise to do. I kept the old one in the center console as an emergency spare as it is still a working CPS. | ||
#17307 - in reply to #17074 | |||
Author |
| ||
pleubner Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Basel, Switzerland Vehicle(s): ML270CDI Brabus-W163,SL55 AMG-R230,ML320 CDI-W164 | Re: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! ... and no detailed removal/install pics & instructions noodles? ... shame on you man! ... Sorry ... going to have to show you the "yellow" card for that one!
| ||
#17339 - in reply to #17307 | |||
Author |
| ||
phoenix44 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! I ended up getting the dealer to change the cps. It was to tight a spot for me to reach. It's too bad that the cps is not in a more user friendly spot. Bottom line. the ML is fixed and running great! Cost; $150CD. for the part, and the dealer charged me 1/2 an hour of labour. | ||
#18513 - in reply to #17074 | |||
Author |
| ||
Marcelc Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: O.K. I guess I did not run out of gas!! I'm glad it's fixed. | ||
#18524 - in reply to #18513 | |||
« View previous thread :: View next thread » |
|
|