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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Hi All
Here in the UK I managed to break a front spring on my 2003 G500, this was actually on road and possibly a bit of a reflection on how bad the roads are here..
I have read through a few posts and wanted to gauge if doing this job is possible for the DIY mechanic ?
I do not have access to a ramp so this would have to be done outside on the ground. I do have a pretty concise collection of tools but gather I would probably need a heavy duty spring compressor (I have light duty ones but not sure I want to risk using those) I can take my time with this and the car can be left on jacks if I need to split the work over several days.
I have had a quote from a couple of garages and they are looking at over 1000GBP in labour, What worries me are they are talking about taking axles off, something I did not think was necessary ?
I have read the DIY guide on rear springs in the DIY section, I thought I saw a few years ago one for doing the dampers too but can't seem to find that now
Any help very much appreciated, If I am going to do this it would be ideal to do it before the winter comes along !
Thanks, Mark |
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
You do not need to remove the axle. You will need to remove one end of the shock to allow the axle to drop low enough. Jack the G up so that the axle is at its lowest drop point. When I did mine I used a Macpherson strut spring compressor which allowed me to reach in with its jaws and compress the spring enough to pull it out. They are not very expensive. Took about 3 hours to do both.
Mark
Edited by Inkblotz 9/14/2016 6:55 AM
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Thanks for the info Inkblotz - much appreciated !
The spring compressor I have is the 2 part one which I think is only really ok for small car or motorcycle springs
Sadly I can't seem to find the one you suggest for sale in the UK, they are even listed on Amazon but all the brands show as unavailable - I'll keep looking
Is a 2.5 Ton trolley jack up to the task ? |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
darko - 9/14/2016 9:23 AM
Is a 2.5 Ton trolley jack up to the task ?
Yes.
Different color, but the same as Inkblotz:
https://smile.amazon.com/XtremepowerUS-Single-Action-Compressor-Macp... |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
On the 460 or 461 this job is very simple. Remove the bottom shock absorber mounts and jack up the frame until the wheels lift off the ground. You will now need minimal spring compressing to remove the springs.
It is actually possible to get them out without compressing if you loosen the trailing arms and the stabiliser that joins them together before lifting the frame.
I believe a good DIY candidate with moderate skill. |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Re: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Just take care not to stretch the rubber brake lines. This is more of an issue in front than rear. But yes, totally a DIY job when approached with a little thought and care. I did mine with a 2-piece spring compressor. I think you'd be fine with that as long as you take the steps mentioned here to minimize the amount of compression required.
-Dave G. |
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Ok, I finally got round to starting this work and having some issues...
I have removed the lower shock / damper retaining nut but cannot get the axle to drop low enough, I have attached a picture below which shows how much the axle is dropping
As the original spring was snapped I did manage to eventually get it out with some compression and leverage on the axle to get it to drop a little more
Problem is there is no way I can get the new spring in !
Any advice very welcome !!
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koly
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 823
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
First, make sure you aren't pulling too hard on the brake lines. When I put in I had to unscrew the brake line mount in the center (leaving the lines intact) to give me the extra inch or so I needed
You could always try this method in a pinch (not the best idea, though): Put the bottle jack on the rear radius arm, and use the jack to push between the frame & radius arm...
If you use the spring compressor mentioned earlier in this thread you'd probably be done already.
darko - 10/24/2016 7:35 AM
Ok, I finally got round to starting this work and having some issues...
I have removed the lower shock / damper retaining nut but cannot get the axle to drop low enough, I have attached a picture below which shows how much the axle is dropping
As the original spring was snapped I did manage to eventually get it out with some compression and leverage on the axle to get it to drop a little more
Problem is there is no way I can get the new spring in !
Any advice very welcome !!
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Hi Koly
thanks for the info
The axle did not drop enough to get close to straining the brake lines, I had already loosened the lines just in case but we were no where near pulling on them
I did use a spring compressor (see picture below) sadly the one you guys recommended simply is not available in the UK - weird I know !
I can try the bottle jack but it seem like I should really find out why the axle is not dropping, I have looked but cannot see why so hoping for suggestions
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Completely remove the nut on the bottom of the shock. Jack the chassis up, NOT the axle, until both wheels leave the ground. Both these points refer to what I can see on your photos.
The weight of the axle must hang off the chassis!
As commented here, when you have done it right, the brake lines will appear to be in imminent danger of being stretched, and indeed on some vehicles need to be freed from their top mount clips to allow full spring extension.
Good luck.
Minimal compression and or rotating or screwing the spring should get it out.
Edited by Boy G 10/24/2016 2:34 PM
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Thanks Boy G
sorry, the picture is misleading, I have put a jack under the axle whilst I leave it overnight (in case it does drop)
The nut has been removed completely from the damper, thats possibly not clear from the picture either |
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
The chassis is being jacked up further back, the smaller jack was just in place to support the axle as I thought it would just drop once the shock retaining nut was removed
Edited by darko 10/24/2016 6:04 PM
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koly
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 823
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Boy G is right re: brake lines & chassis.
I don't think I even needed a compressor for the front springs (but my memory is hazy 6 years on). I know I did for the rears.
And I'm pretty sure I had to remove the mouting clip for the brake lines on top of the wheel hub to remove the strain and provide extra droop.
Both wheels should be off the ground via the chassis being raised.
darko - 10/24/2016 1:50 PM
The chassis is being jacked up further back, the smaller jack was just in place to support the axle as I thought it would just drop once the shock retaining nut was removed
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Ok, thanks for that
So you think I should try and jack the car up higher to raise both front wheels ? |
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| Re: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Success !!
I used the bottle jack that comes with the car as Koly suggested - between the axle and the frame
No spring compressor needed, plenty of space
I still have no idea why the axle wouldn't drop enough on its own but the new spring is in so Im very happy
Now I just have to do the other side and maybe the rear if I have time, possibly new dampers too
thanks for all the advice |
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MudMonkey
Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2013
Location: CO
Vehicle(s): '03 G500
Posts: 274
| Re: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
I would soak those babies with penetrating oil, as well - they look pretty corroded. The less force you have to apply to corroded hardware, the better. |
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| Re: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Agreed, did penetrating oil about a month ago and kept re-applying. The car gets used a lot in the Winter and we get lots of salt used on the roads... |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Re: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
darko - 10/25/2016 11:09 AM
....I still have no idea why the axle wouldn't drop enough on its own...
In your case, it's an articulation thing (trying to drop only one side). What stops the axle is the radius arms. Each one is bolted to the axle so if you try to keep one level (side with the wheel on the ground) and drop the other one, you're in effect trying to twist the axle tube. Hold a broom stick in your two fists in front of you, elbows bent, firm grip on the left hand end and then with a loose grip on the right hand end, lower your right hand toward the ground. You'll get the idea.
There is SOME give here in the bushings between the radius arm and axle, so it drops SOME, but once that give is taken up, it won't drop further. As Bob said, many use the bottle jack to force a little more give out of those axle-end radius arm bushings. Another way is to remove either the front axle mounting bolt on the drooping side, or the rear one on the far side. That'll let it droop freely (do some searches on "disconnectable radius arm" for fun!). Another way is, as someone else said, raise the WHOLE front end (both sides) at the same time so the axle drops straight down without twisting.
Many ways to skin this cat. I think the one you used is the one most people resort to. It's the way I did it 15 or so years ago. Still got the same 2-stripe-white springs on the LWB another 250,000 or so miles on from then and doing well.
-Dave G. |
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| Re: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
hipine - 10/25/2016 9:26 PM
Hold a broom stick in your two fists in front of you, elbows bent, firm grip on the left hand end and then with a loose grip on the right hand end, lower your right hand toward the ground. You'll get the idea.
Good analogy !
I might need to buy another jack then when it comes to doing the other side ! |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Re: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
darko - 10/25/2016 4:08 PM
I might need to buy another jack then when it comes to doing the other side !
Go for a decent set of stands instead. A good friend ended up with his forearm pinned under a brake drum once when the jack failed. He was by himself and managed to yank his arm out from between the drum and the pavement by brute force, but the bruises he ended up with put him in the mood for shopping for jack stands. 
Good luck!
-Dave G. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Another Jack Stand Option
hipine - 10/25/2016 10:50 PM
darko - 10/25/2016 4:08 PM
I might need to buy another jack then when it comes to doing the other side !
Go for a decent set of stands instead. A good friend ended up with his forearm pinned under a brake drum once when the jack failed. He was by himself and managed to yank his arm out from between the drum and the pavement by brute force, but the bruises he ended up with put him in the mood for shopping for jack stands.
Good luck!
-Dave G.
Here's another option. This one is 6,000 lb capacity.
https://amazon.com/dp/B00GJJZ5NI/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=U...
They also make a 4,000 lb version.
https://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-620470-Unijack-4000-Capacity/dp/B0... |
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| Re: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Thanks for the advice.
I am using a decent 2.5 trolley jack to lift and only the scissor jack on the axle to manipulate it
Front right is now done including new damper / shock so I am starting on the front left, clearance for the top shock mount looks tricky though under the steering column plus the front right spring is not broken so definitely need more axle drop this time
Which mounting for the brake hose should i loosen, the top one inside the engine bay or the lower one on the axle ? |
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
It looks like I could loosen this bracket to give more slack on the brake lines ?
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koly
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA
Vehicle(s): 2000 G500
Posts: 823
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
Yes, detaching that bracket will remove some of the stress on the brake lines.
darko - 10/26/2016 6:28 AM
It looks like I could loosen this bracket to give more slack on the brake lines ? |
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| RE: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
OK, that is the front all done - springs and shocks
Massive thanks for all the help so far, Very satisfying to get this done. Good whilst in the depths of the car to fix some smaller problems that might have become bigger such as broken cable clips (that have allowed wiring to get quite close to the exhaust manifold)
Now starting on the rear, the top mounting nuts on the shocks are very corroded so I am anticipating quite a struggle here... |
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darko
Regular
Date registered: Mar 2012
Location: Isle of Man
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500
Posts: 62
| Re: Springs & Dampers replacement - Is it a realistic DIY job ?
All finished, so to answer my original post, yes, this is a DIY job !
The rear top shock mounts were rusted solid - I had to drill a hole in the nut to be able to use a hammer and punch to drive them off
The ride is much improved and will hopefully pass the annual MOT test tomorrow
Thanks all for your help, made this job quite enjoyable |
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