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JSP
Member
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): Mercedes G290 Turbo
Posts: 30
| 711.117 transmission
My truck's diff ratio is too low and it's been bugging me for a while. I have a G290 TD which should have had a 3.72 ratio but it's a military model and it has the 4.11. I tried to get the ratio changed but it ended up being much more complex and expensive than expected so I paused this and thought I'd look at transmission prices.
It seems the best solution for me would be a 711.117 (http://4x4abc.com/Mercedes-Benz.G-Class.manuals/transmissions/getriebe.html) since it's got an overdrive and according to Harald's page it was used on G290. I'd like to know more about their price and availability. Any of you know have information about this? It may not need to be exactly 711.117, I saw an old post discussing a 711.113 which was also supposed to have an overdrive. |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: 711.117 transmission
As far as i know the NA 290 had a 5 speed Getrag gearbox and not a 711.x
And again afaik the 290 turbos were 4.11 ratio diffs. Mine certainly was and i really liked it.
The 711.113 and 711.117 only differ by breather and output flange - the 117 being G specific (Wolf) - otherwise either will work.
But personally I think you will open a can of worms by fiddling with what imo is the best engine, gearbox and diff combo that ever was available in a 461 G. The 602 DELA turbo motor is a low revving unit and if more speed is your thing then maybe a higher revving unit like a 605 might be a cleaner transplant option without all the trouble of clutches, pedals, flywheels, gearsticks and rods and stuff of changing gearing. My current G is a 711.x unit and i miss the 290 daily.
Apologies re the strong opinions but personally i wouldnt do it!
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JSP
Member
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): Mercedes G290 Turbo
Posts: 30
| Re: 711.117 transmission
No worries, thanks for taking the to share your opinion. I know this is not an easy thing to do and I’ve been debating it for a while... and I’m not decided yet. I didn’t want to write a novel here but I guess the other reasons for doing it is that my dream car has a stick (just personal preference) and I will need to put some money on the transmission in the near future... so combine this with lack of speed and it starts to become more compelling. Changing the engine is not really option since it runs like a new and again, transmission has issues so...
G290 turbo wagon came out with a 3.72 ratio, that I’m 100% sure... at least in Europe (I don’t believe G290 ever came to NA). I’ve spent so much time reading about it, browsing the EPC and talking with Mercedes folks on the topic. Now it seems the 4.11 may be less rare than I thought since you had one as well.
The reason why I can’t change the ratio is because the ring gears don’t have the same dimension depending on the ratios and if I want to put in a 3.72 I need to change more than just the gear and the pinion as it doesn’t fit in. These parts are impossible to find used and new they cost way more than a transmission...
4.11 is not the end of the world, I agree with you. I’ve driven it for years now... but I mainly use my truck for long road trips and the extra 10-15 kph I would get would be more than welcome. |
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3185
| Re: 711.117 transmission
What year is your G? |
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| Re: 711.117 transmission
Won't a larger tire do the same thing for you as going to a smaller R&P ratio? |
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JSP
Member
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): Mercedes G290 Turbo
Posts: 30
| RE: 711.117 transmission
Year is 2000.
I thought about bigger tires too. This is another option but not as simple or as cheap as it may look since G290 2000 came with the biggest tires that fit on the 16" rims. So I'd have to change the rims for mags but then the wheels would be wider than the truck by about 2 inches so I would need larger fender flares with spacers. Not to mention that I actually like the look with the rims and the G290 slim fender flares.
Are you guys suggesting these shortcuts to help me avoid the bigger quagmire of changing the transmission or because the transmission I'd like to find is nearly impossible to find? I appreciate suggestions no matter what but I'm curious. |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: 711.117 transmission
You will find the transmission quite easily from the European G dealers I believe - or perhaps the knowledgable Vadim on clubgwagen.com who is located just south of you, who would also probably be able to advise you technically.
I also prefer keeping them slim and flareless, i assume on 800 mm diameter tyres?
I like that word you used - " quagmire."
I have just finished building a 617 turbo engined pickup with a 711 5 speed and tall tyres but with 4.89 diffs. It does not need another gear as it does not have the power to pull it.
My bias aside, i am immensely curious!
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Otiswesty
Administrator
Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
| RE: 711.117 transmission
JSP - 10/8/2019 9:38 AM
I thought about bigger tires too. This is another option but not as simple or as cheap as it may look since G290 2000 came with the biggest tires that fit on the 16" rims.
Do you have 255/85/16 tires? |
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JSP
Member
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): Mercedes G290 Turbo
Posts: 30
| RE: 711.117 transmission
Thanks, I'll find Vadim to see what he has to say.
Yeah quagmire may be overstating the project but I prefer to overstate 
I love my truck and I'm 35 so I see this as a long term "investment"... I'm sure I'll have other cars at some point but I won't love them and I'll keep this one for as long as I can do road trips with it so I don't really mind spending some extra money and time to make it exactly how I want.
To answer the two questions about tires. Yes they are about 800 mm. I don't have the truck next to me to measure but the tires are 235/85 R16 which gives 805 mm. From memory I do recall it was a bit above 31 inches so it sounds right. My understanding is that 255/85 R16 won't fit on the 16" steel rims and my truck. The tires already touch what I believe is called the control arm (?) when I do a U-turn so I guess I can't make it wider without changing the offset. I've been told there a way to restrain how much the wheel can turn but I find it already doesn't turn a whole lot It's a been a while since I looked at this but my recollection is that the 255+ are installed on mags which have a different offset and are wider by at least an extra inch no? |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: 711.117 transmission
Ok my protest has officially ended and from now will only shout encouragement from waaay down south of you!
I am sure you have done the list but this would be my guess for parts:
Gearbox
Bell housing
Clutch slave cylinder
Flywheel - i personally dont like dual mass as i have shredded one before
Pressure plate
Clutch plate with splines to suit 711.11x
Release bearing
Clutch fork
Probably need to change centre CV shaft because of gearbox length differences.
Rear gearbox mount
Speedo will be unaffected by anything you do BEFORE the transfer case.
Minor electrical and vacuum blankoffs including bypass transmission start lockout.
Rewire reverse light switch from gearbox switch to new shifter.
Blank off transmission cooler lines to radiator - hooray.(auto cooling is a major cause of heating problems in hot climate 290's)
Modify A brace between transmission and transfer case
Get a Wolf 5 speed shifter and lever and knob
Get 3 shift lever shafts - i modded my own. It was easy but took about 3 and a half thousand man hours of pleasant swearing.
Cut out and remove the auto shifter mount plate welded into transmission tunnel and fit manual shifter version. Position!!!
Replace centre console tray with manual shifter version.
Swap out pedal box in its entirety to include all clutch gubbins required - this might generate some gremlins - remember not to disturb the 290 accelerator which has a cable through the firewall to an encoder next to the brake booster. I assume you have a lhd such that you need no precaution to prevent the turbo boiling your brake master?
Clutch plumbing.
Please keep us in the loop.
Btw limiting the steering not to rub involves two 13mm spanners and about 5 mins. Turn to full lock each way and observe and adjust the stopper bolts at the rear of the swivel balls.
Good luck and imo the parts you remove from your 290 will be quite valuable for resale. |
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JSP
Member
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): Mercedes G290 Turbo
Posts: 30
| RE: 711.117 transmission
Wow, thanks a lot for this list man! I do have a list but it's not nearly as detailed as yours. I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as you are on this. I'm doing this whole thing with a very good mechanics though. He's done stuff like this many times but not on a g-wagon. I also have Warren from this very forum helping me a lot so I hope I'll manage despite my knowledge shortcomings. To me the main challenge is to know exactly the right part that will fit there. What I lack is someone who has worked exactly on this engine and that transmission so my plan is to progress slowly and acquire this knowledge from people like you and those selling me the parts.
I sent a PM today to Vadim on clubgwagon, thanks again for the tip.
I'll keep you posted!
JS |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: 711.117 transmission
While you are researching, I think it would be worthwhile to get the OM 602 DELA engine ( which you have) torque graph / engine rpm and make sure that the overdrive 5th, and the speed that you want, fits into the sweet spot of the graph. It would be disappointing - i would imagine - if you did all this work and found that at best, your new 5 th gear only worked downhill.
Am I being negative again?? |
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3185
| Re: 711.117 transmission
I ask about the year as there have been several that have addressed this issue by swapping out the transfer case for one with different gearing. Obviously everything that goes through the engine transmission must then go through the TC before it goes to the axles. |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: 711.117 transmission
Perhaps Mark you are thinking that this 461 is the later version with the 463 type mechanicals and a VG 150 transfer case - in which case you could alter its ratio, but it is still the older 461 with VG 80 case which to my knowledge cannot be altered. |
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Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3185
| Re: 711.117 transmission
Thanks for that. Yes I was thinking it was the later model. Surprising that a MY 2000 would have the older TC. |
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JSP
Member
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): Mercedes G290 Turbo
Posts: 30
| RE: 711.117 transmission
Never too careful. I did spend time thinking about this in the past but I had missed something.
My thinking was this:
engine rpm = axle ratio x last gear ratio x wheel rpm.
My axle ratio is 4.11 and currently last gear ratio is 1. So I have a final ratio of 4.11. When I change the transmission this final ratio will go down to 3.313. I don't know if it's too low. But then I thought that if it's too much I can shrink the tires size. If I go to 225/75 R16 then I'm at 3.588 which would be close enough to the "factory" 3.72.
Now after looking at this again I noticed something. The 3.72 is meant to be used with the "default" tires which are small 205/80 R16. I don't know what axle ratio MB would use when the truck was equipped with "optional" tires like I have: 235/85 R16. Would they put a 4.11 in or leave it to 3.72? I thought the 4.11 was only used on special orders or for chassis with cab (that's what I saw in MB's doc). The 3.72 with 205/80 R16 is faster than 4.11 with 235/85 R16 but not by a lot. So it is possible that I would be doing something further away from the MB specs than I thought.
About the torque curve. The peak is between 2000-2500 rpm. With current tires and with the new transmission, the engine would turn at 2640 rpm at 110 km/h. With smaller tires it would be at 2450 rpm which seems quite ideal... but then again, this might be further way from from MB's specs than I thought. I need to do some more research on that.
I found all the above at: https://issuu.com/brabusg36/docs/mercedesg_290gdturbo
This is french but if you go to pages 10-11 and 12-13 there are graphs and tables. |
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JSP
Member
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): Mercedes G290 Turbo
Posts: 30
| RE: 711.117 transmission
Sorry, I started answering Andrew's post then left my PC and when came back to hit submit you guys had wrote other messages.
Yes I confirm this is the old VG80 TC. The G290 turbo is the last model to have it I believe. |
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JSP
Member
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): Mercedes G290 Turbo
Posts: 30
| RE: 711.117 transmission
Do you guys know where to find technical specs of Sprinters? I couldn't find anything online. In Canada the first model we got was with the OM612 engine so my mechanics had the specs. With the same engine and tran, the G would have an axle ratio of 4.3 while the Sprinter with slightly smaller tires would get 4.11 or 3.72. I seems to makes sense that the G would have higher ratio given it was mostly designed for off-road. I'd like to see the specs of the Sprinter with the OM602 since I think it would confirm that it's possible to put an overdrive on my truck... it would be the same G in first to fourth gear and then closer to a Sprinter in the fifth. |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: 711.117 transmission
We got the 602 version here. I might be able to track the ratio for you.
I know you have not mentioned it as agearbox option for you, but this sprinter engine and gearbox combo has been transplanted into some G's i know about with major changes required to fit the gearbox into the transmission tunnel - (not to mention the sprinter version 602 has a different sump and intake manifold that fouls the hood.) |
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JSP
Member
Date registered: Jan 2017
Location: Montreal
Vehicle(s): Mercedes G290 Turbo
Posts: 30
| RE: 711.117 transmission
Thanks, Sprinters information has eluded me, I just cannot find a single reliable website with information about them. I will go on Sprinter forums and ask.
I didn't ask about the transmission but I was thinking about it Do you know the name of the 5 speed manual transmission that was used with the OM602 Sprinter? |
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