|
DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Since my purchase, I notice a slight movement of the temp-gauge and fuel-gauge to the right when I activate my headlights. When I apply brakes or hazards the needles go left a bit. I assume there is a bad or "not-so-good" ground somewhere....so any hints as to the most common ground/eartth sources of these symptoms.
Thanks, Mike |
|
| |
|
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
DesertStar - 6/25/2006 7:31 PM
Since my purchase, I notice a slight movement of the temp-gauge and fuel-gauge to the right when I activate my headlights. When I apply brakes or hazards the needles go left a bit. I assume there is a bad or "not-so-good" ground somewhere....so any hints as to the most common ground/eartth sources of these symptoms.
Thanks, Mike
In addition to the obvious ones behind the dash, etc; check the big cable ground from the battery to the frame and the frame to body ground connections. |
|
| |
|
DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| RE: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
When you refer to dash...are you referring to the upper area directly behind the gauges themselves or the area by the feet and fuse panel ? ( let me guess...both)
Mike |
|
| |
|
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
DesertStar - 6/25/2006 7:59 PM
When you refer to dash...are you referring to the upper area directly behind the gauges themselves or the area by the feet and fuse panel ? ( let me guess...both)
Mike
Yep, but get those big ones under the hood first. |
|
| |
|
DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| RE: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Thanks,...now back to the "oven"......but oh yes, IT IS A DRY HEAT !
Mike |
|
| |
|
Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| Re: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Mike
I added an additional small ground (female connectors at both ends) attaching one end to the bolt of negative ground on the battery and the other to the shock tower. There were already a couple of small unused drilled holes in the tower.
Have not had anymore flickering guage issues since.
Mark |
|
| |
|
DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| RE: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Thanks Mark, I am at wits end now as I have unbolted all visible ground points under hood and dash and still have issue. I came across your post elsewhere and am left with what you did as a last resort. I tend to wonder if there was suppose to be "orginally" a ground from battery to body and maybe previous owner or mechanic/stereo shop altered/removed ??
I will post results later this week.
Mike |
|
| |
|
Wout
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Belgium
Vehicle(s): Mercedes 280GE 1979/230G 1980/ C220CDI/A170CDI/
Posts: 145
| RE: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Good evening,
On my 1979 280 GE there is a Connection on the rear tube of the chassis,
just above the trailer hitch. On this point there are five or six ground (brown)
cables connected. I know that at least one of them is for grounding the fuel gauge system
This grounding point is hardly visible, but I think its worth checking it out. I'm not
sure if it is there on other models.
Good luck.
wkr
Wout |
|
| |
|
DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| RE: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Thanks Wout, it is the bits of info like yours that help as I dont know where all ground points are. I did not know of that one and will definetely check for and clean connection.
Mike |
|
| |
|
AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Grounds & fuses
Since this thread is on the subject of good electrical connections. I'd like to put in my two cents worth:
After fluids and filters, the single best investment of time you can make in an old car is to clean the fuse holders and grounds and to replace all the fuses. Grounds get crudded up with age and oxidation. The fuses self destruct due to heating and cooling, and of course, oxidation.
I wish I followed my own advice. Last weekend, my 230SL left me stranded (ahem, "failed to proceed") for the first time in 26 years of ownership. Diagnosis: fossilized fuel pump fuse. Even the unstressed copper parts dissappeared into dust when disturbed. Most of the rest of the fuses were in similar condition. |
|
| |
|
dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Yes, these ceramic fuses with the strip of metal that wraps around the ends are a pain. Alan, your advice is excellent. Over time the oxidation happens at the points of contact but there is also a mechanical failure over time. The metal deteriorates where they seat in the spring loaded fuse holders. The tips of the fuse sit in a little hole in the contacts that slowly erodes a circle in the fuse tip. They look great but the contact gets iffy and finally you lose a circuit in a weird way. Our TD suddenly lost turn signals, guages, and electric window mechanisims all on the same fuse. Made it hard to give hand signals and people aren't used to them coming out the sunroof. All because of a fuse ends failing to make good contact. I like the color coding of the stock fuses or I would switch to the Buss fuse glass style for German cars. Hard to read the itty bitty amp rating on the ends of those things.
The chassis and motor grounds are an area that I use standard anti sieze on the threads of the bolts and nuts and file or emery cloth the contact surface clean. I clean the paint off of the contact point and cut a fresh surface on the cable ends before installing them. Seems to help.
-Dai |
|
| |
|
DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| RE: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
So far no luck... Can someone advise whether there are two ground cables at battery negative terminal, one going to motor via braided cable and one to body ? If there is one to body what part of the body does it ground to ? Mine only has the braided cable from terminal post to bottom back of the engine.
I have cleaned and tightened connections in following areas:
1. ground point right side inner wing by aircleaner intake tube
2. ground point at air cond compressor
3. ground point at left side at coil mount
4. ground point under dash above fuse panel
5. ground point at rear tube crossmember by trailer hitch
6. replaced all fuses with new and cleaned contacts in fuse holder
Am I missing a cluster not listed above ?
Thanks again, Mike |
|
| |
|
Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| Re: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Mike
The negative ground cable that comes from your battery does it have 3 mounting points?
1. negative pole of battery
2. mount on the frame rail
3. starter mount?
Initially, when I was having the same issues as you, the mount that is attached to the frame rail was badly corroded. That was the reason I ran a second cable to the shock tower.
Mark |
|
| |
|
DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| RE: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Mark, I actually didnt realize those were ground points and thought they were just "holder" brackets until I read your post. I cleaned all contacts by light grinding with dremel tool. It did not solve the problem. The investigation continues.
The contacts I show with the ground cable are:
1. battery terminal
2. body-under batterybox
3. frame
4. starter/engine
Mike |
|
| |
|
dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Mike, it sounds like your main grounds are in good condition then. I have a suggestion that may sound a little weird but here goes. Check through your wiring to see if any of the earth connections have been reversed at your lights (Headlights/taillights/markers etc). Remember that on German machines brown wires are ground/earth. I had a gremlin like that with a BMW R90 S that a previous owner had crossed wired a turnsignal light and cause a bizzare feedback that made gauges and dash stuff go wonkey. This occured when I switched on bright/passing lights. Had no symptoms when the turnsignals were switched on. It took a long time to find it and when I finally did correct the wires presto all was perfect.
I spent a huge amount of time with colored pencils translating German words for colors and tracing around a wiring diagram to home in on where the circuit went. In that case the power fed back through the main circuit board. I would never have guessed a problem in a turn signal.
The places I would look first on your truck would be where the Federalizers added and changed the marker lights etc. On my machine the upper wing lights had been modified and there was some pretty cheesy wiring to the side markers. Possibly you have some kind of gremlin like that. My truck has a little of the symptoms you decribe in the temp guage. I notice it and accept it as part of the truck's personality.
-Dai |
|
| |
|
DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| RE: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Dai, I am considering the "personality" factor as a possible solution as it really isnt that bad...it is just I am somewhat anal about things being "right". The only thing I have wired and cant remember whether I connected the right wires was the heated rear window which I believe I read that was the only thing of which BLACK wire is the earth/ground while brown being the power. If I remember there was a black and brown wire to the window. I tend to wonder if that may be the cause. I will definitely look into the signal wires as they looked like someone prior did something back there and perhaps maybe the bulb area has a bit of corrosion in the taillamp assembly.
It also seems that the #12 fuse involves all items that are part of this problem so any draw or short would have effect on that group....in theory would rule out the rear window.
Thanks Dai for the info.
Mike
Edited by DesertStar 6/29/2006 1:12 AM
|
|
| |
|
Inkblotz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Georgia
Vehicle(s): 90 300GD "Thundering Turtle II", w/ 603A turbo
Posts: 3186
| Re: W460: Lights on needles right, Brake on needles left...Gauges
Mike
Have you read these procedures on ClubGwagon?:
http://www.clubgwagen.com/gtech.php?pageTitle=G-Tech%20Article&sid=...
http://www.clubgwagen.com/gtech.php?pageTitle=G-Tech%20Article&sid=...
They may help in your search.
Mark |
|
| |
