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G-Man
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
While in the MB dealership the other day, druelling on the keyboard attached to the parts computer, I was shown a great many spare G parts and what they would cost. 507 euros, eg, for the shell of a new back door; oodles too, for spare driver and passenger doors.
Noticing that parts become cheaper as you buy them in larger groups, I asked what a whole body would cost. The computer told the grease-monkey a new (and unpainted) 461 or 463 body would cost about 8,000 Euros. Not bad, I thought, considering the short list of pieces I think I need for the restoration of my 1987 460 (sills, back door, other 4 doors, rear left panel under backup light) came to just under 4000 Euros.
Because the computer wouldn't tell us whether a 463 or 461 body would even fit on my chassis, I turn to y'all, hoping you know what's mechanically feasible, and what a DMV/MOT/TUV would register.
By the way, double-cabs are apparently available, if anybody wants one, as are hospital boxes.
Thanks!
BTW, pardon me if this topec has already come up. I searched both fora.
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Fenalaar
Elite Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
| Re: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
A 463 body will fit on your frame, but you will have to move one of the mount points on the frame. Be sure to check your regulations, since in Norway it's not allowed to swap the body if the frame mounting points has to be moved. Also, we need to apply for a permit to swap out the body on the car. I don't know the regulations in Germany.
What I don't know is if the 461 body can be used on a 460 frame... That would be tempting...
Johan-Kr |
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G-Man
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
Thanks...I wonder what kind of expertise this would require, and how much of the guts of a 463 I'd have to buy to make it all fit together. |
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Fenalaar
Elite Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
| Re: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
If you just want a rust-free body, that shouldn't be so much of a problem. I don't think you need to buy so much of the guts of the 463. Basically, what you want to do is to move over the entire interior from the old body. The same with the engine, electrical systems et al.
However, if you're thinking of updating the interior, you'll run into serious amounts of work. Matching the electrical systems will be a problem area, since there are very few similarities between the models. Also, you're going to have problems with the 4wd controls (the 460 is hydraulically activated, while the 463 is elecrically controlled). The 460 is very simple and uncomplicated, the most advanced electrical element outside of a possible aftermarket radio being the regulator for the generator, while the 463 has oodles of wires running everywhere.
Outside of the seat covers being worn, a few switches being worn out and some indicator lamps being burnt out, the interior of a 460 is incredibly hard-wearing. Most of the stuff will probably be in good enough shape to just move over.
Before you start, I think I should mention that the 8000 euros probably doesn't cover painting...
Johan-Kr |
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Fenalaar
Elite Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
| Re: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
Oh - by the way - before you paint the body, perhaps you should have somebody galvanize it ?
Johan-Kr |
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G-Man
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
Good ideas, Johann. Thanks. I wonder who could galvanize something that big. It would be nice if it came from the factory that way.
I'm told it's hard to get the 463 body on the 460 chassis...
I'd be happy to keep the guts of my 460. Like you said, it's very hard-wearing. |
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MazWest
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Benelux
Vehicle(s): E220T, 250GD LWB Wolf
Posts: 180
| Re: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
G-Man,
Putting a 463 body on a 460 chassis is common in The Netherlands due to the way automobiles are taxed. If your car is 25 years old (i.e. Frame is 25 years old.) you don't have to pay street tax which could easily run $2000 per year for a G-Wagen plus insurance and now the higher price of gas.
Give these guys a call if you're interested. http://www.xtremetoys.nl/index.php I've seen their work and they are good. Not cheap but, good.
btw; I'm in Heidelberg right now. If you want to get in touch I'll PM you my Handy number. I'm departing the area on Thursday.
Richard |
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Fenalaar
Elite Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
| Re: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
I know one company in Norway that can do huge items like a G body in one bth. I'm sure there must be someone close to where you live, too.
I suggest using your local yellow pages and look for metal treatment companies.
Johan-Kr. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Hot Dip Galvanize
Fenalaar - 7/4/2006 5:30 AM
I know one company in Norway that can do huge items like a G body in one bth. I'm sure there must be someone close to where you live, too.
I suggest using your local yellow pages and look for metal treatment companies.
Johan-Kr.
If you were to use a hot dip galvanize, it might give you good corrosion protection; but you won't like the paint finish over it. |
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Fenalaar
Elite Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
| Re: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
They strip the body by using acid treament (to remove paint and/or rust) and sand blowing. Then they can do galvanizing or anodizing. Afterwards, you can have it spray painted or powder coated.
Stripping the body free of paint will run around 1000-1500 euro, depending on its condition and size.
The complete treatment with acid bath to strip away the paint, fixing of dents, holes &c and the spray painting or powder coating would probably run a fair bit, but it'll still be cheaper than buying a new body.
Before and after images after acid treatment, see below.
Johan-Kr
Edited by Fenalaar 7/4/2006 9:36 AM
 (DSCN0073.jpg)
 (DSCN0092.jpg)
Attachments
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 DSCN0073.jpg (122KB - 11 downloads)
DSCN0092.jpg (91KB - 11 downloads)
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G-Man
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
wow! I could do without paint anyway...I love the look of galvanized steel. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Galvanized Steel
G-Man - 7/4/2006 3:54 PM
wow! I could do without paint anyway...I love the look of galvanized steel.
Single hot dipped or strip galvanized? There is a huge difference.
(P.S. Fenalaar's photo is not of galvanized steel.) |
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Fenalaar
Elite Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
| Re: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
Dutch is right - the photo is after acid stripping, before any surface treatment. I wonder if anodizing would be a viable solution to rust protection ?
Johan-Kr |
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460332
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Europe
Vehicle(s):
| Re: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
As I have learned you cannot fit ANY interior parts from a 460 chassi to a 463 chassi? I think, e.g., the dashboard has to rebuilt.., and what about holes for the wiring, steering, heating, seats, shift rods etc. The engine and transmissions are completely different. You would probably have better chance to fit parts across with the 461 Worker chassi.
Moving or welding new 463 body mount point on a 460 or 461 frame should be a fairly straight forward job for any professional. BTW, there is no difference between the 460 and standard 461 frames, the numbers refers the car model, not the frame. So, if you have a 460 chassi today, stick with that. |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| Anodizing
Fenalaar - 7/4/2006 5:19 PM
Dutch is right - the photo is after acid stripping, before any surface treatment. I wonder if anodizing would be a viable solution to rust protection ?
Johan-Kr
Anodizing is a process done to aluminum only, not steel. |
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460332
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Europe
Vehicle(s):
| Re: G restoration a la Johnny Cash (PBUH) or 463 body on 460 chassis?
Here is a short (??) 463 chassi
http://cgi.ebay.de/Mercedes-G-463-Karosse-mit-Tueren_W0QQitemZ19000... |
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