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tinol2000
Date registered: Dec 1899
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Vehicle(s):
| Conversion Question
Hi,
Want to install a M603 on a 460 Chassis. This engine is from a 300D Turbo 1987. I also would like to take the turbo unit out, fit it with a 5 speed manual trans and use the same injection pump. Will this engine perform like a regular non turbo engine? Please give feeback, advice and suggestions.
Thank you |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Conversion Question
I think the 617 five cylinder is a better motor in the G. The 603 has an alloy cylinder head and if overheated the head is toast. The 617 series has an all mechanical fuel system. Not fast but will get you there and back every time. The 617A is also a very reliable motor.
The 5 speed manual transmissions are very hard to find, will require the correct shift linkage gear and have a problematic front input bearing that seems to fail early. I have this transmission in my truck and have found an alternative modified bearing and assembly procedure that seems to have solved the problem. There are two trucks running around with this change and so far the fix works. I think the transmission is excellent but would not run one for long with the stock front bearing. It has a two piece inner race held together with a clip. All of the motor torque sees that bearing first. I replaced it with a one piece inner race maxi bearing.
My understanding is that an injection pump for the Turbo motor is tuned for the fuel needs of that motor which is quite different for the non turbo. If you want a naturally aspirated diesel why not start out with one? Or take that NA diesel, rebuild it and tune it like the one Amzimmy built for his truck. Look back with the search function and you will find how he modified a standard 617 and reallly improved performance without using a Turbo.
I'm sure others will respond, I have been cautioned about the '86 and '87 M603's. 617 series motors are strong, reliable, easy to maintain, and there are a stunning amount of them in service world wide in automobiles, trucks, and specialized tractors. These comments are my opinion, there are some G owners running slightly later M603's that are happy with them and I hope you will get clarification about when they improved.
-Dai |
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tinol2000
Date registered: Dec 1899
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| Re: Conversion Question
Thank you for your reply, and you're right on concerning the M617 engine. I am going to look at the info on improving the performance of the M617 and wait on some more replies and suggestions.
Thank you |
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g-class merv
Date registered: Dec 1899
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| RE: Conversion Question
Been a lot of activity on the usgwagen site with a guy who fitted a turbo motor, suggest you look him up & have a chat about it,
All i would say is to make sure the turbo motor you fit is a factory fit turbo & not an aftermarket one as the engines are built differently internaly although they look the same outside. Aftermarket turbo conversions can lead to blown seals, cracked pistons etc etc & usualy ends in tears.Regards,
Merv!
www.g-classcentre.co.uk |
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Alaskagwagen
Date registered: Dec 1899
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| RE: Conversion Question
Don't let the OM617 enthusiasts pollute your mind  The OM603 is an excellent engine. It was not used much in the US thus a lot of people don't know much about it. It is used in much larger numbers in Europe (where ironically, the 617 is less common). Yes, it has an alloy head but most "modern" vehicles do. My previous G500 had an alloy block! So that is not necessarily a bad thing. They are strong, powerful and very smooth. Further more, no need to adjust those valves! I have had a 617 (NA) and it was great engine as well but less powerful and noiser. I also have a OM636 in my Unimog and it is even rougher than the 617 but then it was degined and produced in 1957.
I have an OM603 in my 90 300GD and love it. I have had no problems and the enigne is plenty strong for me. That said, I have a OM603A (Turbo) in a crate in the garage. In intend to put in in a 460 (or if I can find an relatively inexpensive 463) eventually.
I think the conversion would be good. The electronics for the 603 are minimal - idle control only I think. Mercedes makes great diesels and the OM603 is no exception.
I wish you luck and please keep us updated on your progress.
Re- a 5 speed tranny: There is a 5 speed from MB trucks/vans which some are using. Do a search in the other forum's archives and see what it was. Dave was getting one from Europe.
Check out the great UK forum too - lots more of the 603 powered gwagens there (nothing but good things to be said about them). Here is the link - http://www.gwoa.co.uk/
Adam |
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Alaskagwagen
Date registered: Dec 1899
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| RE: Conversion Question
Ah - I just check GWOA and here is a guy who had put a 603 in a 460. Those guys in the UK have all the fun.
(Quote)
Post subject: Re: Wanting Info Diesel Conversion PLEASE
Be very careful with the sprinter engine and veggie oil though. No personal experience, but failures are known. Direct injection and cold veggie oil means veggie oil in the sump with disastrous outcome. Can be done though either twin tank system or fuel pre-heater. Twin tank system works best.
Or even better, don't use direct injection engine in your conversion.
Really best thing for you to do is this:
There's a member on here, username Markvulture, who knows his way around these things. Get in touch with him. I have been to his place and was very impressed. Several conversions being done very professionally. Also a 603 6-cyl turbo into a w460. From what I could find so far, the best person in this country for this sort of thing and very reasonable rates too.
(End Quote)
Markvulture can be reached through the forum. This message is from the Technical Forum.
Adam
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tinol2000
Date registered: Dec 1899
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| RE: Conversion Question
Hi
Thank you again for the replies. I am still in the process of preparing the cabin and I have both engines so plenty of time to make up my mind. Will keep you posted and send some pictures.
RD |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Conversion Question
RD asked the question specifically about the '87 603. I know that folks have had good luck with later 603's but I am aware of a couple of significant issues with the early ones, '86, '87. Cylinder heads and also a recall of the trap oxidizer that would let go sending particles through the turbo. I know of late model 617A motors that did this and MB replaced the trap, turbo, and exhaust system. I think this recall went through '87. Be sure of the motor that is going in there I guess is my comment. I am a rabid 617 fan and have no problems polluting others minds with their advantages.
-Dai |
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tinol2000
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Conversion Question
Hi,
There is one part of my question that I have not heard much about, that is the fact that I want to use this engine without the turbo. Is there anything I should consider in doing so besides the abvious loss of power boost resulting from taking out the turbo unit.
Thank you
RD |
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Alaskagwagen
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Conversion Question
HEY Dai,
Maybe pollute is too strong a word  The 617 is a great engine - I will not ever argue against that. If it is Mercedes and smells like diesel, I am hooked! I think the early 603s in the US were doomed from the start with the trap oxidizer which was not used in the rest of the world. It unfortunately did taint the reputation. There were also some issues with the early heads. Look behind the #2 injector for the casting number, in the format 603-016-xx-01. If "xx" is number 14, the head is early one more prone to fail (1 or 2 out of every 4 or 5 developed cracks). If it is a number higher than 14, the head is a newer one. MB did replace some of these. Heads with numbers 17, 20, and 22 are the new, stronger heads.
The OM 603 is a less common engine here in the US for sure. Another source is from the US Army SUSV (tracked vehicle) which used initially the 617A then the 603A and then finally a ford engine.
Another advantage to the 617 is the wide availability of parts as that engine was in sedans for years here in the US.
Adam
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| Re: Conversion Question
Believe it not... when I kill my M104 engine, I would love to replace it with the 603 engine.
Let me know how it goes. |
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