|
G-Man
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Going without the oil cooler?
Back on the old forum, we talked a little about the possibility of removing the oil cooler (from a 460, 300 GD).
With inspection around the corner, I'm contemplating this mod, and am wondering whether anyone here has done it, and remembers what parts were needed (with specs, if at hand).
Thanks. |
|
| |
|
hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: Going without the oil cooler?
If you want to do it you need to cap both the cooler line ports at the filter housing and also remove the thermostatic element from the filter housing. Another possibility would be to have a "U" line custom made to connect the two cooler ports on the housing. Warren T. on the other list (I think he's here too) has experience running 617As this way (using caps and removing thermostat). The 617 should require the oil cooling even less than the 617A since the latter puts a lot of heat in the oil by spraying oil on the undersides of pistons, which the former doesn't do. Dave G. |
|
| |
|
dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Going without the oil cooler?
I know of 2 badly overheated MB diesels, both OM615s, that were most likely saved by that little oil cooler. It is about 103F here right now, and I'm in taking a break from repairing a tractor radiator hose issue. I would not run an MB Diesel without one of those. Ever.
-Dai |
|
| |
|
-UG-
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Finland
Vehicle(s): GD300, S350 CDI
Posts: 446
| Re: Going without the oil cooler?
However, MB has decided to go without the oil cooler themselves on 617 engine. The saloon car 617 engines (at least not all of them) don't have an oil cooler.
Just use the saved space with bigger water cooler and I would expect you to be better off than with the oil cooler. A local friend had a G fitted with an 617 engine from a saloon car this way and it run just fine (still does).
-UG- |
|
| |
|
amzimmy
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: South Africa/Italy
Vehicle(s): GD300 1981, Alfa GT 3,2 V6, Alfa Brera Q4 3,2 V6.
Posts: 850
| Re: Going without the oil cooler?
dai - 7/23/2006 1:22 AM
I know of 2 badly overheated MB diesels, both OM615s, that were most likely saved by that little oil cooler. It is about 103F here right now, and I'm in taking a break from repairing a tractor radiator hose issue. I would not run an MB Diesel without one of those. Ever.
-Dai
Re: Going without the oil cooler?
However, MB has decided to go without the oil cooler themselves on 617 engine. The saloon car 617 engines (at least not all of them ) don't have an oil cooler.
Just use the saved space with bigger water cooler and I would expect you to be better off than with the oil cooler. A local friend had a G fitted with an 617 engine from a saloon car this way and it run just fine (still does ).
-UG-
Dai is quite right! Don't run a 617 without oil cooler. You definitively can not compair a load on a normal passenger/saloon car engine to the G( 2,1 ton weight), just install e oil temperature gauge and you will clearly see on a moutain pass going uphill in second gear at 3000/3500 revs the oil temperature will get above 120 to 130 deg C.
The oil cooler will make a difference, as small as it is, once the oil gets to high temperature it takes seconds for the viscosity to collaps and destroy the engine.
Most engine failures (oil related) are of people running a strech of road at high speed, the engine gets hot, the water temperature looks good (no oil temp gauge) and they switch off the engine. The oil temperature is very high and the heat in the cylinder sleeves is enormous the oil breakes seizing the engine.
My advise is don't mess with it, choose a good oil and care for your truck. The radiator can be increased by 1 or 2 cores but the cooling effect of the radiator does not give you the wanted cooling effect to the engine oil.
amzimmy 
Edited by amzimmy 7/24/2006 5:29 AM
|
|
| |
|
hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: Going without the oil cooler?
Just for the record, the original post wasn't about whether or not one SHOULD remove the cooler, but rather HOW to go about it. So far I haven't found the MB engineers to be dimwitted in too many significant ways nor adding kit just for fun and giggles. My feeling is first that if they put it there, it's probably needed. I may not have discovered the need, YET, but I trust them to look out for me. I'd keep the cooler there by all means. BUT Since they are known to fail catastrophically and with out warning, it still might be a nice idea to have a work-around for use when travelling far from home. The failure of record seems to be within the body of the oil cooler itself or it's inlet/outlet connection fittings. I'm thinking of a little piece of pipe with the oil cooler fitting at both ends that could be used to attach between the two hose ends to make them a loop if required in emergencies. Just a thought, since an oil cooler failure is a mission critical stranding situation as it leaves you with no way to keep oil in the engine with it running. -Dave G. |
|
| |
|
dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Going without the oil cooler?
I think all of the failures I am aware of are the result of force applied to the locknuts on the hoses connecting to the coolers. There are two styles of coolers: the G has the classic old steel style with steel fittings mated to the brass tank radiator and there is an alloy unit that is mated to the plastic tank radiators. I have seen both types have failures where the fitting is connected to the cooler tank. The alloy coolers are especially vulnerable to the problem because the threads will seize to the steel and rip free or the fitting will break off. Antiseize on the threads will avoid the problem but the best solution is to not disturb them at all. There is really no reason to fool around with those fittings. A radiator can be removed by disconnecting the cooler from it. The old style cooler has a hex fitting mated to the tank. When I have needed to loosen the big nuts on the hoses I use an end wrench on the flats of that fitting to provide stability and counterforce to avoid stressing the connection to the tank. If the job is attacked with a big wrench on the locknut only a lot of force is directed to the fitting/tank joint. If it doesn't fail when it is being reefed on, it might later in the way Dave describes. That connection is plenty robust but it will not withstand the torque possible with the wrench that fits that locknut. I doubt the failures people have reported were with undisturbed fittings. The coolers are very well made. I learned the hard way and ripped off a fitting. I has a very solid interference mechanical connection before it is brazed. I really doubt they will vibrate free on there own. They need to be pushed.
-Dai |
|
| |
|
G-Man
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: Going without the oil cooler?
Thanks, all. You have convinced me to replace, rather than repair, the cooler.
Could I trouble y'all for a part number for a 460 300GD?
Thanks! |
|
| |
|
advance
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Going without the oil cooler?
Keep the oil-cooler. om617 needs it. This is unheard of in Norway, removing it.... |
|
| |
|
dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| RE: Going without the oil cooler?
I think it is 1231800265. They were used for years in many different sedan models. 200D, 220D, 240D, 300D. I should think a used one must be near you somewhere.
-Dai
Edited by dai 7/25/2006 1:10 AM
|
|
| |
