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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: Veggie Oil Update
So from what I am reading you can mix 10 gallons of veggie oil with one gallon of gas and get good results ? ? ?
I am running 50/50 veggie diesel in my "warm up tank" and have seen no issues with it yet. If I could get away with a 10.1 that would save me even more $$$.
Something about putting gas in a diesel is just a scairy thought.
Would love to see someone say that it is working as that would be great |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Veggie Oil Update
230G - 5/9/2006 4:48 AM
So from what I am reading you can mix 10 gallons of veggie oil with one gallon of gas and get good results ? ? ?
I am running 50/50 veggie diesel in my "warm up tank" and have seen no issues with it yet. If I could get away with a 10.1 that would save me even more $$$.
Something about putting gas in a diesel is just a scairy thought.
Would love to see someone say that it is working as that would be great
I think the logic behind putting a small amount of gasoline into the SVO/WVO is to thin it out and reduce the viscosity. Personally I'd rather just spring for some diesel. Kerosene is another good option. Gasoline is a non lubricating solvent and some of the seals may not like it. That being said, the practice seems relatively common. |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
I agree with Alan, I wouldn't run any amount gasoline in our diesels. Pumps are extremely expensive to rebuild these days and injectors are over $350 for a rebuild. We blend Bio D with diesel and when I finally get it together and get the SVO system installed and running I will use the same strategy when the weather is cold.
-Dai |
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martin
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Del Mar, CA Isles of Scilly, UK
Vehicle(s): 99 G500 95 E300D 95 R1100GS 06 K1200R
Posts: 297
| RE: Veggie Oil Update
AlanMcR - 5/9/2006 8:05 AM
I think the logic behind putting a small amount of gasoline into the SVO/WVO is to thin it out and reduce the viscosity. Kerosene is another good option. Gasoline is a non lubricating solvent and some of the seals may not like it.
You're right Alan. That's why I add ATF to the brew to help with lubrication. Also, RUG is alot easier to get than kerosene.
230G ... check out the diesel discussion forum here http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/ for alot of info about SVO/RUG and WVO/RUG combinations. |
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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
I spent a lot of time this morning looking at a ton of mixing ideas. Most people out there in temps above 50 day 40 night say that a mix rather then just heating is the way to go.
The most agreed on mix was as follows.
4.5 gallons veggie
.5 gallon gas some even go as low as a quart in warmer weather
2 oz Cetane boost
1 oz acetone.
The theory behind the RUG is to help bring the octane up as diesel is 45, veggie oil is 25 tops.
From what else I read to get pure veggie oil to the same thiness as diesel it needs to come out of the fuel filter at about 250 F not the recomended 160 ish.
Seems to me most people saying the only way to go is to heat it are the same people selling a heating solution.
$800 to heat or about $5 a tank to mix.. I will go the mixing way in summer and go mix heat in the winter as I already put in a heater. |
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T.Schuhe
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Olympia, Washington State, USA
Vehicle(s): 460 1985 LWB 300GD five speed
Posts: 711
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
Dai,
That was my thought as well - start with a blend, look for filter chunks, and then move into B99. Ultimately, Extra-extra virgin olive oil...nothing too good for the old girl. Tristan, I will keep an eye on the fuel lines. Mine is a 1980 with original lines. You donot have the year of your 300GD listed, but perhaps the lines are of the same type. I have replaced the "throbbing balloon line" near the injection pumb, and I suspect it will be safe for B99. The others look fine for the moment.
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| Overheard veggie oil comment...
I've been running SVO (Soybean) for some time now.
So, early this morning, I'm backing out of the school parking lot with a load of 10 year old kids heading off to a class field trip. One says to the other:
"Who would be barbecuing at this hour?" |
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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| RE: Overheard veggie oil comment...
ha ahaha haha hahah aha ha!!!! That's rad! Wait, So you're actually running SVO right now? (pretend i can't read) no tanks heaters, no mods? what's the coldest you've been running it as such if so? |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: Overheard veggie oil comment...
Yup, fresh Soybean oil. I haven't located a decent source of used oil. I started with a half tank of diesel and have been refilling with SVO once it gets back down to half. The tank has to be 99% SVO by now. The E300DT is getting the same treatment now.
So far the weather has been warm. I need to make up a small jar of the stuff to perform some cold weather experiments in the fridge. I'd like to know what the cloud point is. So far it runs smoother than diesel and zero soot, even when I nail the throttle. The latter result may just be that the oil is thicker and thus the mixture doesn't get as rich.
If I can secure a more convenient supply I'll engineer a robust heating system for winter. I plan on single tanking. For trips to the snow i'll just refill w/diesel and disable the fuel heater. |
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Pgreen
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
Very interesting, My one friend would run his 300td wagon on svo all summer here in philly! No issues at all, no prob with cold start up's, I have a two tank system in the 300gd, and in the dodge cummins, i just mix 50/50, The cummins doesn't like to run cold on 50/50 when below 65f out, until engine warm.
Peter. |
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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
Veggie oil update for me.
I was reading that people should bubble or mist wach WVO even if you are filtering down to 1 Micron.
I took some WVO that I had filtered down to 1 and put that in a jar.
I also took some of the same 1m filtered oil and did some minor water misting washing.
Needless to say I will be washing all my WVO from now on. The differance is about 30 to 40 % clearer. It was amaizing. |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
230G
What is bubble or mist washing? I have no information about these processes.
-Dai |
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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
What I do is filter to 10 Micron now. Then in a 55 gallon drup I put in 40 gallons oil 10 gallons of water then use a fish pump with one of those fizzy bubble stones on the end and let it run over night. After I let it sit for about 5 to 7 days. Scim the clean oil off the top and the water crud mix at the bottom will suprise you. That would of gone into your engine.
It also reduses what is left of the smell in the out.
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BenzDieselTuner
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
whats goin on guys?
i do this stuff......
just wanted to introduce myself.........
i'v done over 4 thpusand miles of pizza deliveries for free, on WVO, tshirt filtered, in my unmodified Coupe.........
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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
So you are telling me that the only filtering you use is a T shirt.
You should think about some more stringent filtering.
I have filtered down to 1 microng but the 5 micron bag after about 50 gallons has a sludge in it that would rival and crude washed up on the beach. Your fuel filter is probably 5 or even 1 micron, I can not understand how you are not clogging them every week. |
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T.Schuhe
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Olympia, Washington State, USA
Vehicle(s): 460 1985 LWB 300GD five speed
Posts: 711
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
Tomorrow I will pick up my biodiesel card. By this weekend, I should be running the first mixed tank of B20. I will follow Dai's advice and start slowly with blend, then blend B99 with normal diesel. After filter changes, I will switch to the B99 without "cutting" it with dino diesel.
Very exciting!! |
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T.Schuhe
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Olympia, Washington State, USA
Vehicle(s): 460 1985 LWB 300GD five speed
Posts: 711
| RE: Veggie Oil Update - pricing
I topped-off my fuel tank this afternoon with B-99. Considering the fuel in the tank, and the 99% added, equals around B35. I was pulling my trailer around today with a load of washed sand and thick granite rock pavers.
The engine clearly runs smoother, smokes less, and has a very soft "nose" resembling fresh popcorn or other food cooked in veggie oil.
So far after about 90 miles of highway and back road driving, all is well. The primary filter (clear plastic) shows only a very little evidence that things are being cleaned from the fuel system.
Oh yes, the price for B-99 was 2.99$ US a gallon. Normal diesel at the pump next to the B99 pump was 3.30$ US, while B-20 was $3.19
So far, so good!  |
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MazWest
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Benelux
Vehicle(s): E220T, 250GD LWB Wolf
Posts: 180
| RE: Veggie Oil Update - pricing
I don't know why all you are getting so complicated with this subject. I've been running SVO for two years now without any problems. As long as the outside temperature is above 12 degrees C, I use straight SVO, when the temp dips, I start using a diesel / SVO mixture. No science here, the colder it gets, the more diesel. To be on the safe side, if it's too cold for the SVO to pour easily out of the container, just fill up with diesel at the pump. As long as you're not trying to drive around in -40 degrees C, you should have no problems.
I've changed my filters but have noticed no unusual discoloration or clogging. The truck runs better and quieter on SVO with noticeably better acceleration and a higher top end. (+/- 5 MPH) The engine also runs noticeably smoother. Not only have I noticed but, several of my friends have also commented on how smooth it is.
The day I bought this truck and drove it home, I stopped at a local convenience store (ALDI) and tanked with 15 liters of SVO. By the time I had driven 5 miles home, it already smelled like a french fry stand. (As attested to by my wife) I don't mind the smell but, it's fun to watch other motorists, bicyclists and pedestrians while driving around town. I should be getting some sort of kickback from the local fast food places for whetting peoples' appetites.
BTW, the price of SVO here is half of the cost of diesel at the pump. That eases the pocketbook and leaves money for other more enjoyable adventures. 
Happy motoring,
Richard |
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G350DT
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
MazWest
Why not get WVO and filter it yourself. I spent about $150 for filters and a few tanks and I now have about 50 gallons of very nice 1 micron filtered oil. |
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MazWest
Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Benelux
Vehicle(s): E220T, 250GD LWB Wolf
Posts: 180
| Re: Veggie Oil Update
230G,
WVO is a subject which I have given much thought. The biggest challenge I face is acquiring WVO that has been used to cook only vegetables. (i.e. french fries) I prefer not to use oil that has cooked any animal products. It is my understanding that animal fats aren't good to run in our engines. Do you have other experience?
I saved a picture of a veggie tanking station a couple of years ago. I don't remember who on the old forum posted it but, it was a rather simple and affective set-up. A 1000 liter polyurethane tank, a 12 volt pump, a 12 volt battery, some hose, some PVC pipe and a wife or girlfriend to operate the whole contraption. 
I need to pursue this subject further. When the price of fuel starts climbing again, that's the incentive I need.
Richard |
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