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stevegsmith
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SF Bay Area, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 82 300GD WVO, 06 Jeep Lib CRD B99
Posts: 1301
| blower motor comparison question
Okay, so I just got the supposed replacement motor for my stock Behr AC unit (as mentioned in my query thread (http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=6791&posts=11&mid=68989&highlight=blower+motor&highlightmode=1&action=search#M68989).
Just to rehash, I tried to find a replacement for the original bosch motor (dirty one) 0130111006 (germany) and was told I could get one of germany for $228. Then, Warren T suggested that it was the same motor as the 124. After posting the question to the benzworld 124 thread, Jayare pointed me to www.Autohausaz.com, where I ordered a new bosch motor (clean one) for $78, 0130111012 (brazil). I figured, even with the differing last two digits, it was cheap enough to order for a looksie.
After close inspection, they appear to be almost exact matches. The one differing item is on the old motor (see where pencil is pointing).
So, the question of the day is, "What the hell is the black plastic thing and does it matter that the new one doesn't have it?" Circuit breaker, condensor, what?
Anyone have any thoughts?
Steve
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 bosch_motors_1.JPG (175KB - 1 downloads)
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: blower motor comparison question
No idea, power up the new one out of the heater and see if it works like the old one. If so go for it! No one was responding to you question so I decided to punt. Der Lumoswagen is running great! Vegioil is hard to filter when cold. Slow.
I hope that new motor is the fix for you.
Cheers mate,
-Dai |
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DesertStar
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
| RE: blower motor comparison question
Well, for my 2 cents, I thought the motors used in the W123,W26.W124 models always were running with the automatic climate control systems....as opposed to the G of which you can actually turn the blower off. Whether it means something with regard to the motor design is beyond me and just a thought. It sure does seem strange that MB would use something completely different when they are known for parts to be 'carried" over from one chassis to another for many years. My other thought is that motors are different with respect to their heating systems, ie: a non-US spec W123 with auto-climate control versus a Euro-spec which does not (in most) and is similar to that in the W460. We all would be interested in the actual findings.
Mike |
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Speedmaster
Member
Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500 - Sold 88' 300GD -Sold 08' LR2
Posts: 40
| RE: blower motor comparison question
It looks the holder for the copper brush contacts. The newer motor may be using spring loaded carbon contacts. |
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-UG-
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Finland
Vehicle(s): GD300, S350 CDI
Posts: 446
| Re: blower motor comparison question
It's too late for you and may be insignificant but when I replaced mine, my dealer said that this should always be changed as a complete unit with the rotors since it becomes pre-balanced that way as a complete assembly.
If I remember correctly, the entire assembly was also not expensive at all.
-UG- |
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stevegsmith
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SF Bay Area, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 82 300GD WVO, 06 Jeep Lib CRD B99
Posts: 1301
| Re: blower motor comparison question
UG,
Thanks for the two cents. During the benzworld post discussion about swapping out motors, that comment had come up.
Why would a motor and balanced fan have to be balanced together? The motor is balanced, the fan is balanced. Are you thinking that because there are two fans, one at each end of the shaft, therefore there would be the added need for some sort of synchronization? I got a C in physics so I apologize if I'm missing something....and of course, I appreciate lesson.
Unfortunately, a complete assembly replacement for me here in the US is no less than $500. I believe the first quote was $700. A motor (without fans) off the shelf in Germany is $230.
Regarding my findings on the purpose of the extra black plastic element on the old motor and the motor comparison: I went to an "old school" motor shop the other day to ask. They couldn't give me a definitive answer but they speculated that the plastic thing is a thermo switch that probably opens the circuit in the event the motor overheats. Otherwise, the motors are identical. They also mentioned that it wasn't weird at all for bosch to have two different numbers for parts made in Germany and Brazil.
Bottom line, I think I'll go for it. I'll post again as to the success or failure.
Now, all I have to do is find the time to put the wagen back together!
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Jonathan Joseph
Expert
Date registered: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Vehicle(s): 2004 G55
Posts: 1538
| RE: blower motor comparison question
Did you ask the motor shop if they had the capability to rebuild the old unit? Over the years I've found a few electric motor shops that could rebuild anything you needed no matter how old or oddball. Usually not to expensive either, if parts don't have to be fabricated, and it's suprising how many motor parts are universal. Also they usually can balance or have someone who can.
Jonathan |
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stevegsmith
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SF Bay Area, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 82 300GD WVO, 06 Jeep Lib CRD B99
Posts: 1301
| RE: blower motor comparison question
Jonathan,
Yeah, rebuilding was $275 minimum. I tried that first.
Steve |
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Jonathan Joseph
Expert
Date registered: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
Vehicle(s): 2004 G55
Posts: 1538
| RE: blower motor comparison question
Steve, that's pretty pricey but I'm glad to hear someone could do it. I don't look forward to the days when some of these parts are no longer available and we have to start finding rebuilders for everything.
Jonathan |
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zimm
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Vehicle(s): lx470, 76 fj40, 72fj40, 96 gelandewagen g320.
Posts: 788
| RE: blower motor comparison question
just bumping this to thank the efforts of steve in locating this part, as im certain this saved me a few hundred dollars.
than u p3
the part is ordered. |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: blower motor comparison question
So you're going to try and move your old impeller to the new motor? I'll be very curious to hear how that works out. As others have said, these things don't last for ever and it would be nice to have a "forever plan" in the works for when parts get sketchy. Please follow up! I never heard how Steve made out with his.
Thanks!
-Dave G.
PS - sorry. I got a little too excited before I read the whole thread again. I see it's for the AC unit, not the heater blower. But I'd still like to see something on the parts exchange, unless it's trivial. The exchanging the heater blower impeller seems not trivial at all.
Edited by hipine 3/17/2012 11:39 PM
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stevegsmith
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SF Bay Area, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 82 300GD WVO, 06 Jeep Lib CRD B99
Posts: 1301
| Re: blower motor comparison question
Zimm, you'll need to do a little playing around with the motor before buttoning up. My system is not perfect and I dont exactly know why....yet. I'll post some follow-up info tomorrow. Too late to do now. Did you order a new resistor? I think thats important.
Dave, impeller swap is pretty straight forward. Pull off, press on. |
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zimm
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Vehicle(s): lx470, 76 fj40, 72fj40, 96 gelandewagen g320.
Posts: 788
| RE: blower motor comparison question
i didnt order a new resistor. i "think" that is easily accessible on the firewall of a 95 463. its not in the unit that i can see.
actually i was considering cutting an access panel into the top of the behr unit to make it easier to replace next time. im trying think of what i can use as material to cast over the top before i cut the hole. |
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zimm
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Vehicle(s): lx470, 76 fj40, 72fj40, 96 gelandewagen g320.
Posts: 788
| Re: blower motor comparison question
stevegsmith - 3/18/2012 1:22 AM
Zimm, you'll need to do a little playing around with the motor before buttoning up. My system is not perfect and I dont exactly know why....yet. I'll post some follow-up info tomorrow. Too late to do now. Did you order a new resistor? I think thats important.
Dave, impeller swap is pretty straight forward. Pull off, press on.
im curious as to what isnt right. it seems it should be straight forward. |
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stevegsmith
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SF Bay Area, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 82 300GD WVO, 06 Jeep Lib CRD B99
Posts: 1301
| RE: blower motor comparison question
So, just a recap...since you asked. Thanks for bringing this up Zimm and shame on me for not following up. Kind of been a work in progress though so the following has been a development since '07 with the last issue happening somewhat recently.
Shortly after posting this (back in '07), I upgraded my standard 460 heater blower non-AC air box to an AC air box from an '85 460. Used everything stock (wiring loom, switches, and relays) except for the original compressor and condenser. Before installation, I replaced the motor with the one mentioned in the first post. Didn't replace the resistor.
Right away, I noticed that the output (blowing force) was huge, especially in position 3. Kinda like a jet. At the time, I had nothing to compare it to and I just wanted to get the thing back together....so onward I went.
Months later while traveling through Mojave, I had the AC on and switch in position 3. Until then, I had not used more than position 2. Eventually I smelled electrical and reached down to feel the fuse box. HOT. I turned the blower off and no more heat, no melted plastic, no cockpit fires. Hmmm.....add that to the list of things to look at. After that trip, I rarely had the occasion to use AC and since it was never really perfect anyway, I shelved the concern for a rainy day.
[Eventually the non-stock AC bracket tensioner began to fail so I pulled the compressor and bracket off to repair. Did that, put it back on but never got around to looking into the AC issue itself. A year later, the bracket developed another failure. A fatigue tear in the 1/4" steel appeared near where the compressor was mounted. Ugggggg and crap. Again, pulled the compressor and started talking to Christian about a complete redesign. A project for a later day.]
I did continue over the years to use the heater (same blower) but never more than position 2. Did not experience the overheating fuse again but never pushed it to position 3.
One day I had a chance to read the amp draw on Christians similar blower motor for comparison. Each setting on this unit, 1, 2, and 3, it drew a few LESS amps than mine. So, for some reason, my unit was drawing more power which explains the jet-like position 3 and would have something to do perhaps with the resistance/heat build-up. Could this have been due to the old resistor?
Eventually my three position switch fried so I got another one. When I put the new one in, I didn't hook up the #3 post so that I wouldn't accidentally use it....since the problem was still open-ended. The old switch looked like it had suffered a little heat build-up. Hmmm....I get it....but I don't.
So now, here we are. Truth is, I have not had the time or resources to look into the situation so I don't have any answers AND I can't honestly say that the motor used was just like the stock unit. Obviously I'm not an electrician. That is my state of the union. Sorry I can't be more helpful Mark but maybe some of the engineers on the forum will have some thoughts to share.
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: blower motor comparison question
stevegsmith - 3/19/2012 5:37 PM
So, just a recap...since you asked. ...
Wow thanks man!
Do you still have that old motor of yours? Is there a chance that black bit you were asking about is a resistor built onto the motor frame? An ohm meter check of the old and new motors would tell that tale.
I hope we can provide some help in return for that informative write up. I know it takes time to get that stuff out. Thanks for doing it for us.
-Dave G. |
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zimm
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Vehicle(s): lx470, 76 fj40, 72fj40, 96 gelandewagen g320.
Posts: 788
| RE: blower motor comparison question
steve, ill have to examine this when i get the motor. where is your resistor located?
i wonder why its runs hot on 3 but doesnt blow the fuse. |
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stevegsmith
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SF Bay Area, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 82 300GD WVO, 06 Jeep Lib CRD B99
Posts: 1301
| Re: blower motor comparison question
Dave, no prob, you're too kind. I'll have to look. Honestly, I cant remember the turn of events but i think I remember talking to some guys at a motor shop about it....although that may have been about the other motor from my non AC box before I delved into this thing. You would think I would have asked those guys to compare for me. Ill buzz you if I can find the old motor.
Mark, resistor is in the box. Old school. Darn chumps. Did they do that so the resisitor would be cooled by the fan? |
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Fernando BR
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Brasil
Vehicle(s): G500/05 300GE/91 300GD/80
| Re: blower motor comparison question
My 300GE uses the same blower motor used on 300GD , in that case same pn 000 830 62 08 . Mercedes made a kit to transfer the resistor to engine house , nothing more than a wire and a new shape resistor , easy to place at engine house. Its 4 speed , but the day i have to open 300GD box (please nooooooooo) i will change resistor to e.house with an adapted 3 speed one.
Other mistery MB makes is about R12 and R134 , at the end air boxes , expansion valves, dryers , evaporators are almost the same on H02 Behr version. Price changes... R12 parts cost the double. Changed 300GE and 300GD to R134 and all worked well , have used sedan dryers and expansion valves , they fit with small adaptations.
Now my project is use two aux fans like new 461 . I will try the 270 cdi external fan shroud in the place of bars ( i am prety sure it fits) and the two aux fans 000 500 60 93 ( autohauz has them cause they are used on sedans too) , used on 290GD, etc..etc..etc...
I think this and rubber protect lines are the only real improvement MB made on H02 system used untill today on G300CDI. It reduces temp of compressed gas so produces more cold at expantion.
Btw did you change the wire used on blower button ? If i remember well fuse changes fron 16 to 25A.
take care
Edited by Fernando BR 3/20/2012 12:41 AM
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Re: blower motor comparison question
stevegsmith - 3/19/2012 9:10 PM
... Did they do that so the resisitor would be cooled by the fan?
For sure. Darned near every car does it that way. Some of them find even less accessible places to hide them just to get them in the cool airflow, and yet out of reach of water spray and splash. The one in the gen 1 Range Rovers was under the cowling at the base of the windscreen. I've completely blocked from my memory the contortions required to get that sucker out.
But that does remind me of something. On all of these things I can remember, the top speed of the fan still includes a resistor. The resistor pack for the old 2-speed 460 fan had two resistors on it. MAYBE when they wanted to go to a 3-speed fan, instead of designing a new resistor pack, they might have just bought a motor that had a 3rd resistor integral with the motor. Speed 3 is wired straight to the motor because the motor includes that resistor, while speeds 1 and 2 go through the separate resistor pack before going to the motor and the resistor there... plausible? I dunno, just a guess.
-Dave G. |
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